The Household Charge

**bennocelt** · 02/04/2012, 1:58 PM

Eh yeah, go for it!

You might feel a whole lot better
So what exactly is your answer then - to pay up and shut up?

**Lionel Ritchie** · 02/04/2012, 6:41 PM

Haven't registered, have no intention of registering. I'm not even ideologically opposed to a property tax. For now I'm just not paying because I'm not paying because I'm not paying. My recalcitrance is the only form of protest available to me and I'm going to hold out, frustrate and thwart them for as long I can without losing my job. ...and if they get it out of me somehow eventually well how bad -I'd rather pay 11, 22 or 33 bucks more than half the population than 100 bucks more than the other half.

Also -I handed over 14k stamp duty not two years ago. I don't want my local authority getting a button more of my money. They've disowned faulty sewer works they recently decided to remember at a most convenient time that they didn't build in the first place. They want to **** 120M up a rope on a dual carriageway near my house that would not pass any cost benefit analysis. But they want it because they want it because they want it.

Incidently, I've been a solid Labour/Green Party supporter and voter all my voting life.

**mypost** · 02/04/2012, 10:03 PM

There were no options available to the electorate. Nobody wanted FF, and SF are not allowed to be in government unless they get 83 seats, which won't be happening anytime soon. So the choice was FG/Lab or FG/Lab, and a FG/Lab government was elected. And that will be the only viable option next time too.

If the fine was for local services, it would be collected by local councils. Instead its going into a central fund, to be distributed as required. And what are all funds going to atm? It's not local services, that's for sure.

**Macy** · 02/04/2012, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by mypost

There were no options available to the electorate. Nobody wanted FF, and SF are not allowed to be in government unless they get 83 seats, which won't be happening anytime soon. So the choice was FG/Lab or FG/Lab, and a FG/Lab government was elected. And that will be the only viable option next time too.

I don't believe that SF were that toxic - if the numbers had stacked up, both FG or Labour would've gone in with them if a programme for Govt could be agreed. FF aren't relevant to the discussion, since they signed the bloody programme that makes this charge a necessity for any Government/ Party that is going to stick with the Troika deal.

There were enough anti programme candidates between SF, ULA and independents to form a none programme government, if that's what the people wanted. You were giving out about the number of candidates in some constituencies ffs. But the electorate had no option? Give me a break - the electorate nearly gave an overall majority to the most pro european and most pro troika programme opposition party.

Originally Posted by mypost

If the fine was for local services, it would be collected by local councils. Instead its going into a central fund, to be distributed as required. And what are all funds going to atm? It's not local services, that's for sure.

It's a tax. Not a fine. It was always going to be distributed for council funding. How does the motor tax online operate?

btw those that paid stamp duty in the last few years do have a valid argument imo. Much more than going on about bailing out the banks which could nearly do with it's own Godwin's type law, or at least be filed with "won't someone think of the children".

**mypost** · 02/04/2012, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

I don't believe that SF were that toxic - if the numbers had stacked up, both FG or Labour would've gone in with them if a programme for Govt could be agreed. FF aren't relevant to the discussion, since they signed the bloody programme that makes this charge a necessity for any Government/ Party that is going to stick with the Troika deal.

They wouldn't have asked SF. As far as the main parties are concerned, SF are toxic because of their history and can't be associated with them. SF need 83 seats, otherwise they can only ever be an opposition party.

**Macy** · 03/04/2012, 6:37 AM

Originally Posted by mypost

They wouldn't have asked SF. As far as the main parties are concerned, SF are toxic because of their history and can't be associated with them. SF need 83 seats, otherwise they can only ever be an opposition party.

So the Ula, Greens and left wing independents such as mcgrath, pringle, wallace and o'sullivan wouldn't do a deal with sf? Like they haven't to form various technical groups in the dail over the years?

**bennocelt** · 03/04/2012, 8:48 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

btw those that paid stamp duty in the last few years do have a valid argument imo. Much more than going on about bailing out the banks which could nearly do with it's own Godwin's type law, or at least be filed with "won't someone think of the children".

Well take off the FG goggles, there is a bank inspired recession on, or did you not know that!

**Macy** · 03/04/2012, 9:04 AM

Yeah, I'm the well know resident blueshirt

First mention of (property) stamp duty was Lionel, the rest of you have just had general, pathetic, whinges about bailing out the banks.

**bennocelt** · 03/04/2012, 9:14 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

Yeah, I'm the well know resident blueshirt

First mention of (property) stamp duty was Lionel, the rest of you have just had general, pathetic, whinges about bailing out the banks.

Yeah but you seem to think that that it has no reference to anything that is happening in Ireland at the moment (or at least admit it). All you are saying is support the government, blah blah blah, pay the taxes, blah blah blah. Whats your problem then if you are content with the government and all the taxes on the way - life must be rosy for you.

**Macy** · 03/04/2012, 9:28 AM

I am saying you shouldn't evade tax, and pointing out that this tax was part of the Troika Programme that both Government parties were committed too pre election. The electorate were, or should've been, aware of this before the election, and if they felt strongly enough that they'd evade tax, they should've voted for the other options (which were available). The current Government would be returned if there was an election tomorrow based on current opinion polls

Not agreeing with evading tax of a democratically elected government shouldn't be taken as an endorsement of the current Government, or taken as a fact that every thing is rosy for me or my family. However, I think they're pretty much doing what they said they'd do pre-election - unlike the latter years of the last Government, the current one still has an electoral and moral mandate for the way they are governing in general, as well as for this tax. It's called democracy.

**bennocelt** · 03/04/2012, 10:38 AM

And many people are exercising their rights not to pay a very regressive tax that will just be used to fund the bailout (one way or another)
And it might be a democracy but its not an informed electorate

**Macy** · 03/04/2012, 11:14 AM

It is not a right not to pay tax. Hence the charges and interest will start to accumulate. Yeah, we can see the electorate isn't informed by the attitude of many to this tax, as if though it's some kind of shock to them.

**bennocelt** · 03/04/2012, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

It is not a right not to pay tax. Hence the charges and interest will start to accumulate. Yeah, we can see the electorate isn't informed by the attitude of many to this tax, as if though it's some kind of shock to them.

Well you can simply refuse to pay it. Charges and interest wont frighten anyone, they will be lucky if the councils can figure out half the people who didn't pay. Its not a shock just that people have had enough of the government wasting our money, especially if huge amounts of taxpayers money is leaving the country to bail out banks and the like - but of course you know this, but you are still happy to pay for it. Good man.

**dahamsta** · 03/04/2012, 11:24 AM

Macy, this is Current Affairs, drop the righteous indignation please.

**Macy** · 03/04/2012, 12:25 PM

Wasn't my intention, if that's how it was coming across.

**Mr A** · 03/04/2012, 12:43 PM

The whole things is desperately depressing. The government have not handled it at all well, with different messages coming from different ministers. This also happened in the run up to the budget and annoys the hell out of me. The opposition have been at their opportunist best- it's bizarre to see leftists against steps towards a property tax (which this is). The same people protesting against cuts to anything whatsoever are protesting against every new tax or charge. I think a lot of the opposition to the charge is portrayed as principled when it's more just not wanting to pay.

Even without the bank debt, the country is haemorrhaging money so new taxes are inevitable, as are cutbacks. A situation where people decide which taxes to pay and which ones not to is a recipe for chaos to be honest- wide spread tax evasion is a big part of Greece's collapse.

Paid mine almost as soon as it was possible to do so. Ironically given some of the comments above this was partly inspired by someone from either ULA or SF saying that we should not pay it in a way that annoyed me (can't remember the detail now), and partly because I was always going to pay it just suited me to get it out of the way at that time.

**Real ale Madrid** · 03/04/2012, 12:44 PM

I didn't vote for FF / FG or Lab in the last election but I still paid the household charge.

I feel it incumbent on me to follow the wishes of the majority of the electorate and follow the programme the majority of the people in this country voted for. I wasn't happy about it, and will exercise my democratic right again next time to have my say.

Personally though, I think more tax without serious reforms in this country is a major 2 fingers to general public.
I'd love to know how many recommendations of the McCarthy report for reform have been implemented?
How many quango's have been closed?
Have we capped this ridiculous public service pension scheme yet?
Is this government running this country in an efficient manner?
Has anything fundamentally changed in the past year?
Maybe just maybe if the government could answer some of these questions in a positive manner then mabe the majority of people would sign up, help them out, and pay more tax.

**LmkSnr** · 10/04/2012, 7:22 PM

Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

I didn't vote for FF / FG or Lab in the last election but I still paid the household charge.

I feel it incumbent on me to follow the wishes of the majority of the electorate and follow the programme the majority of the people in this country voted for. I wasn't happy about it, and will exercise my democratic right again next time to have my say.

Personally though, I think more tax without serious reforms in this country is a major 2 fingers to general public.
I'd love to know how many recommendations of the McCarthy report for reform have been implemented?
How many quango's have been closed?
Have we capped this ridiculous public service pension scheme yet?
Is this government running this country in an efficient manner?
Has anything fundamentally changed in the past year?
Maybe just maybe if the government could answer some of these questions in a positive manner then mabe the majority of people would sign up, help them out, and pay more tax.

FG are just puppets for the real rulers. look at the advisers to the goverment john brotun and peter sutherland aka goldman sachs who also were advisers to greece. These people are selling this country out .WAKE UP google john bruton dermot gleeson peter sutherland tri lateral commision .just learn whats really going on dunphy was right football is to keep the mass;s entertained and not have them thinking'.time now to watch liverpool get beat again.