Left or Right Side of the Crash Barrier

**Macy** · 05/08/2004, 8:51 AM

Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Economic Left/Right: -2.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.95

What a bunch of trendy lefties.

KOH

Well if Conor is to believed, with an economic left/right score like that, you're a prime FF candidate...

**WeAreRovers** · 05/08/2004, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

Well if Conor is to believed, with an economic left/right score like that, you're a prime FF candidate...

I would be in the imaginary FF that Conor seems to think still exists.

That was before Micheal Martin and the PD tail wagging the FF dog. The current government is the most authoritarian I can ever remember.

In fairness to McCreevy though (

) I'm a free marketeer like himself but it's the social policies of the FF/PD coalition that drive me nuts. We need less laws not more - stop criminalising ordinary law-abiding citizens!

KOH

**Macy** · 05/08/2004, 12:53 PM

Sure I could drive around at 80mph to and from the pub all day, cos the only time I ever see Garda check points and speed traps is on motorways and dual-carriageways... Still, no point policing the country roads where most fatalities occur when there's money to be made....

**Peadar** · 05/08/2004, 1:18 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Still, no point policing the country roads where most fatalities occur when there's money to be made....

So long as we have people willing to break the law we'll always have a tough job trying to police the state. You need to ask yourself Macy, are the police at fault because they're not on every high-road and byroad or are the people who break the law on these roads at fault because they think it's not wrong if they're not caught? The fact of the matter is that there is a general wave of lawlessness in Britain and Ireland at the moment and everyone is blaming their respective governments. In truth we should all take more responsibility for our actions and until such time as we do the state will have to continue to impose greater restrictions on us.

**Macy** · 05/08/2004, 1:23 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

I'm confused. Are you saying social policy and interference is bad, or social policy is good but just not enforced enough for your liking? Have you tried asking your local Garda� why they are not doing their job, or is it easier to sit and complain?

I'm saying that some social policy is good, however how it is enforced is more important. For example 80mph is not that big a problem on a motorway, whereas 80mph on back roads is a major danger to other road users (couldn't give a f�ck about the actual driver, if he wants to kill himself fine). So the guards should be concentrating on the back roads, not on motorway bridges, the 6 lane Stillorgan dual carriageway etc.

It is easier not to complain to any police force, as you'll just be harrassed for daring to question how they do their job, and frankly it's the Minister of Justice job to set up the dedicated Traffic Corps and tell them where they should be concentrating their efforts.

**Macy** · 05/08/2004, 1:28 PM

Originally Posted by Peadar

So long as we have people willing to break the law we'll always have a tough job trying to police the state. You need to ask yourself Macy, are the police at fault because they're not on every high-road and byroad or are the people who break the law on these roads at fault because they think it's not wrong if they're not caught? The fact of the matter is that there is a general wave of lawlessness in Britain and Ireland at the moment and everyone is blaming their respective governments. In truth we should all take more responsibility for our actions and until such time as we do the state will have to continue to impose greater restrictions on us.

I agree, but it is up to the respective Governments to concentrate the resources in the areas that there would be the most benefit. And by benefit I mean social benefit not monetary. Surely you can't argue that most road deaths take place on single carriageway roads as opposed to Dual Carriageways and Motorways?

**Peadar** · 05/08/2004, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Surely you can't argue that most road deaths take place on single carriageway roads as opposed to Dual Carriageways and Motorways?

Most deaths involve and/or are caused by young males at night where excessive speed is cited as a contributing factor.
I think we need to address the root of this problem rather than having police out hiding in laneways trying to catch them.
Education is another issue which needs to be addressed.

**WeAreRovers** · 05/08/2004, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by Peadar

The fact of the matter is that there is a general wave of lawlessness in Britain and Ireland at the moment and everyone is blaming their respective governments. In truth we should all take more responsibility for our actions and until such time as we do the state will have to continue to impose greater restrictions on us.

When the Tories get sick of Michael Howard they have a ready made new leader in Peadar. Try reading the above quote to yourself in a plummy Michael Howard style voice - it's uncanny.

KOH

**Macy** · 05/08/2004, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by Peadar

Most deaths involve and/or are caused by young males at night where excessive speed is cited as a contributing factor.
I think we need to address the root of this problem rather than having police out hiding in laneways trying to catch them.
Education is another issue which needs to be addressed.

I agree with the education, however it's still not on the motorways that most accidents caused by speed happen. You are far more likely to pass a speed trap during the day on a dual carraigeway, than even late at night on the same roads. Infact, the favourite time in Stillorgan is Sunday Morning

**pete** · 05/08/2004, 2:02 PM

Originally Posted by Peadar

Most deaths involve and/or are caused by young males at night where excessive speed is cited as a contributing factor.

All officials seem to imply that speed is the only factor in road deaths.

Drove 300 miles from Dingle-Dublin-Drogs-Dublin monday on last day of long weekend (usual time of high garda presence) & saw 1 Garda "speed" check on dualcarraigeway around Limerick.

IMO irish roads & inappropriate speed are the main causes of road accidenst & fatalities. Our roads are mainly single carraigeway with ditches which means if make mistake then slime chance of correcting without hitting ditch/tree/wall/pole. Even the dualcarraigeways & motorways have woeful design cos NRA have no clue (e.g. crash barrier debate).

**Macy** · 05/08/2004, 2:15 PM

Split the thread, as going way off topic, even for off topic.

**Peadar** · 05/08/2004, 2:20 PM

Originally Posted by pete

Even the dualcarraigeways & motorways have woeful design cos NRA have no clue (e.g. crash barrier debate).

You've just cued a certain Pat's fan for debate

Pete, if a driver can see that the roads are unsuitable for certain speeds then it is their duty to drive at a reduced speed.
We're all adults FFS!
Do we really have to have a garda standing in front of us with a speed gun in order for us to obey the speed limit?
If I had my way anyone caught speeding would have a limiter put on their car for the duration of the penalty points they incur.
That'd learn em!

All men under the age of 25 would only be insured on a car with a limiter fitted.

**WeAreRovers** · 05/08/2004, 2:27 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

Split the thread, as going way off topic, even for off topic.

Typical ironfist authoritarian nonsense.

Seriously though, I think going way off topic is one of the joys of t'internet just like ordinary conversation. I'm the acknowleged king of taking threads off topic on the Ultras MB and I'm not ashamed of it. Now where were we?

KOH

**Macy** · 05/08/2004, 2:31 PM

Originally Posted by Peadar

Pete, if a driver can see that the roads are unsuitable for certain speeds then it is their duty to drive at a reduced speed.
We're all adults FFS!
Do we really have to have a garda standing in front of us with a speed gun in order for us to obey the speed limit?
If I had my way anyone caught speeding would have a limiter put on their car for the duration of the penalty points they incur.
That'd learn em!

All men under the age of 25 would only be insured on a car with a limiter fitted.

So whats the Guard doing there in the first place? To simply catch people speeding, or to prevent accidents? If the former, then they should come out and f�cking say it rather than continue this pretence of it being to protect other road users.....

You're spending too much time in middle england Peader

**WeAreRovers** · 05/08/2004, 2:33 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

Percy Bysse Shelley or John Keats...

Was Shelley the bloke out of the Buzzcocks? Definitely him so...

KOH

**Macy** · 05/08/2004, 2:33 PM

Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Typical ironfist authoritarian nonsense.

Yeah, but by keeping it seperate I hope to prove that in this sample of the population, that the FF heads are right wingers.

btw I created the opening for you off topic ramblings WAR!

**Peadar** · 05/08/2004, 2:43 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

To simply catch people speeding, or to prevent accidents?

Surely the two go hand in hand?
Speeding is the primary cause of road deaths in Ireland.
Preventing speeding by catching the offenders should in turn help to prevent accidents?
My point is that people complain about the police force but the truth is that we fail to act in a responsible manner but don't want to accept the consequences. We prefer to pass the buck and lay the blame at someone else's door.

**pete** · 05/08/2004, 2:53 PM

Originally Posted by Peadar

Surely the two go hand in hand?

Can tell you not a driver Peadar.

The Gardai in oirland will claim they choose the big straight roads cos they got more road presense which means people will slow down for the other roads. Reality is that there is almost never a speed check on single carraige roads which is where the accidents happen as its easier to sit at side of Motorway & pick poeple off 1/2 mile in the distance.

Likehood of getting caught & consequences of it is what stops people from braking most laws.

**Macy** · 05/08/2004, 3:00 PM

Originally Posted by Peadar

Surely the two go hand in hand?
Speeding is the primary cause of road deaths in Ireland.
Preventing speeding by catching the offenders should in turn help to prevent accidents?

No, it's all about speed on poor roads. Doing 90 on a motorway much less dangerous than doing 50 (let alone the 60mph limit) on most country roads.

**Peadar** · 05/08/2004, 3:08 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

No, it's all about speed on poor roads. Doing 90 on a motorway much less dangerous than doing 50 (let alone the 60mph limit) on most country roads.

Those roads are also dangerous for garda� to be stationary on them waiting to catch criminals. It's the duty of parents to ensure that their kids are acting responsibly when out on the roads and it's the duty of us adults to ensure we ourselves act responsibly.
You've all come back with some answer being critical of the garda� for not taking proper responsibility for your actions and the actions of other adults.