nigel-harps1954 - do you really not get the qualitative difference between shouting, for example, "phuq off you baldy b0llix" to a male referee in all-male environment, and shouting something at a woman about her being a woman in all-male environment? There is inevitably a sexual innuendo that the woman has to deal with that the baldy b0llix of a ref doesn't. Women simply shouldn't have to run this gauntlet at any time, and especially not in a large public gathering of men.
And you said, "it doesn't matter whether they SHOULD have to deal with it or not, because really they do have to deal with it, ...it's part of the job of being a referee". I completely disagree. That's a license to say anything to anybody. That's the excuse people used twenty years ago to excuse throwing bananas at black players, and that's why black players had to swallow their tongue and not complain in case they were thought of as "problems" that clubs needed to get rid of. It was only when enough people start saying, "that's not on" that people's behaviour started to change. And that's why its important that when the same thing happens to women that some of us say that it's wrong and should stop. Hopefully, in a few years time, the type of abuse women routinely get (and the quieter problem of general discrimination against women in football) will be regarded as out-of-bounds as racism generally is today.
Last edited by gormacha; 14/03/2012 at 1:34 PM. Reason: typo
League of Ireland is an all male environment? You really should work on your own clubs attendance patterns if that is the case where you watch football.
As a matter of interest - did the lino actually make a complaint? Was it included in the ref's report?
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
You're really not getting the point. It's one thing that you think I don't understand your point, when in fact I do, convenient that my girlfriend is a strong feminist, but it's another that you keep bringing up the same argument over and over again gormacha.
I understand that a female should not have to go through sexism, just the same way nobody should.
You are the one singling out the woman in this whole thing, 'in a male dominated world'. I'm trying to state my point logically and simply for you, that whether or not it's acceptable, whether or not it should be there, there is abuse toward referees in this sport. Any person, male or female, wanting to be a referee should be prepared to deal with it as it is part of the job. Don't give me that whole '20 years ago' sh**e again because it is simply something that happens in football.
And, for the record, there is a lot worse things shouted at referees than 'fug off ye baldy bol**cks'.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
Are you really going to nitpick with me to that extent? Everyone knows that males account for the overwhelming majority of supporters. Yes, there's some women, but how many? A few percent? In future I'll be careful to state it more accurately for you, even though you surely knew what I meant and that the point is beyond debate.Originally Posted by Macy
People in a minority, like women now, or black players in the past, rarely make complaints because they are afraid of the consequences. "She's trouble that one. Can't take a joke."
nigel, yet again you haven't dealt with the substance of my argument - that things don't change until people's poor behaviour is challenged. The example of how attitudes to black players changed is not "sh1te" as you eloquently put it, but entirely relevant because it shows how challenging racism changed behaviour inside grounds.
Like racist abuse, sexist abuse is not a given. It could change if enough people said it was unacceptable. Clearly you're not one of them.
i wouldnt put them in the 'Mutant' category with Bob
I'm not denying the reality that it happens or saying that this is the first instance. I was originally objecting to the fact you were applauding it, as if it's not a totally barbaric way for a section of the crowd to act.
And I'm not laughing because it wasn't funny. I'm sure there are plenty of women - there may even be some on this board - who will see it as banter and play along, but it shouldn't be a default position that any woman in football should be seen as fair game for this kind of neanderthal bull****.I applaud you sticking up for common decency, and for the rights of others, but I'm simply saying, in reality, they have to deal with this sort of thing.
I'm not laughing because as you said "the crowd is picking on and belittling somebody based on their gender", I'm laughing because it was a funny joke. I've heard linesmen get worse abuse over the years, are you going to say to me now, "it's a disgrace they got that sort of abuse simply because they were a man." I think not.
And you can't flip this one. Linesmen don't get abused on the basis of their gender.
That's not true at all. Douglas' lesbianism is a frequent point of abuse!!
theres only one, Jason Gavin
theres only one, Jason Gavin
with a jet engine, and a cabin crew
Gavin is an aeroplane
more of a transformer ol Jason
Okay, I give up. How's about I say sorry, and move on. Women are great.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
Great at doin the dishes, wha, wha
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
Of all the women who were in the ground at the time (be it a few dozen or a few hundred), how many others were abused? I'd go for none. Are you arguing that the fact that she was a match official had nothing to do the fact that she was getting abuse?
I think that to describe it as discrimination on the basis of their gender is to mis-represent the situation.
Match officials get abuse. If they're bald, they get abuse for that. If they're short, they get abuse for that. If they're women, they get abuse for that. It's all equally wrong.
Last edited by osarusan; 14/03/2012 at 9:29 PM.
Eamon Zayed, In Newbridge, told to "go back where you came from": Sallynoggin!
Women are singled out in most walks of life. Sometimes it is an advantage, sometimes it isn't. As far as langugae goes, rough as it gets sometimes, we haven't quite gone down the Islamic route of banning them from the stadium yet.
They're in a minority in Irish football, mainly through choice. They choose GAA and rugby over football because it's a friendlier atmosphere, they can mix with whoever and whenever they like, not be herded into a segregated part of the ground with all sorts of fanatics, having to sit in allocated seats for 2-3 hours at a time, subjected to routine searches for a set of car keys outside it, and held back 15 minutes after the games. It can be a hostile environment sometimes, and understandably they don't like it.
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what games are you going to? allocated seats? you only get held back at away games, and even then not for too long, Tallaght and Tolka are grounds I can remember being held back in - dont think weve been held back anywhere else recently
Yeah, you can't get women to go football with you because of that...
If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.
To get somewhere back on track, its Rhona Daly (not Rhonda) and she is from Athlone.
Done the line in Lissywollen a few times and got a bit of abuse, not for being a woman but for some poor calls.
Larry Be Wyse
www.acsportsimages.com
I think abusing the ref/lino (be it he or she) is still referable to hitting him in the head with a bottle
Unfortunately the chance to hurl abuse at some poor unfortunate is now as much part of the game as enjoying the football. More often than not it is good fun and adds to the atmosphere. On the occassions where it goes overboard the people around usually deal with it or report the matter to stewards.
Often wonder how much impact such abuse from the crowd would have on a player/official (if any). Dont believe for one second anyone fels "intimidated" by banter - however crude.
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