Glens win in Europe

[Lux Interior]

are you heading up to coleraine on tuesday?--we've got our supporters bus to pick us up at the sandyknowes roundabout, and i've already made arrangments to get out of work a shade early.

Sadly not. I'm off to Switzerland for the OWC friendly - can't believe we've rearranged this one during international week

[Lux Interior]

BHG,Just think how much stronger & better you'd be,if you were in an A-I Lge.......

Dev, the 'splitters' can rejoin anytime they like

[eoinh]

Ive just read that danish players are going on strike.

there is a good chance that Glentoran could be playing a team full of amateur players.

[Lux Interior]

Ive just read that danish players are going on strike.

there is a good chance that Glentoran could be playing a team full of amateur players.

That would help, eoin, if we weren't playing a team from Sweden

PS: re your sig - just watched 'Nosferatu' t'other night (the Shrek version, not Kinski's)

[eoinh]

That would help, eoin, if we weren't playing a team from Sweden

OH ! I suppose then my nugget of information was useless.

[lopez]

Dev, the 'splitters' can rejoin anytime they like

Why not? Democratic elections based on one man - one vote from the registered footballers around Ireland, move the IFA offices to the capital and host all internationals at the stadium with the biggest capacity under the flag and anthem voted by the majority. Sounds good to me!

[Lux Interior]

Why not? Democratic elections based on one man - one vote from the registered footballers around Ireland, move the IFA offices to the capital and host all internationals at the stadium with the biggest capacity under the flag and anthem voted by the majority. Sounds good to me!

Happy for an AI league .... eventually but NOT at the expense of our national side.

Hypothetically, the 're-unified' IFA to remain where it has been for over 125 years and internationals rotated between the two capitals. Flags and anthems horribly neuterised .... St Patrick's flag with a rousing new anthem written by Jake Burns.

Sorted

[lopez]

Happy for an AI league .... eventually but NOT at the expense of our national side.

Hypothetically, the 're-unified' IFA to remain where it has been for over 125 years and internationals rotated between the two capitals. Flags and anthems horribly neuterised .... St Patrick's flag with a rousing new anthem written by Jake Burns.

Sorted

Dunno if the suits will prefer a pad in an obscure part of South Belfast as HQ to Merrion Square (the northern reps can always go into the British High Commisioner for tea). As for the Fitzgerald saltire, you know where you can shove that relic from Britain's imperial past. While there is certainly an argument for a new anthem I can't see why both flags can't be flown or the IFA flag if foreign associations are unable or unwilling to fly two flags.

As for an all-Ireland league affecting the Northern team, I would argue that an all-Ireland state wouldn't necessarily affect it. If there was a vast ammount of support for a NI team in the 6C then do you seriously think that an Irish government would start another civil war to disband it. Trouble is that the 26C is no US and the North's relationship to it is no Puerto Rico.

An all-Ireland league would in BHG's words strengthen the sides, although I think he's trying to be take PJ's place as resident eejit if he thinks this is one way process across the border. No disrespect to anyone but having five or six clubs competing in a league from one city is hardly helping to bring about an Irish club challenge in Europe.

[liam88]

All Ireland team might be good craic-but obviously as has been mentioned is the issue with flags etc. It hink we'd see a lot of Nord Iron supports become full time in-gur-land fans, don't know if this is better or worse
If it happend within the next 1 or 2 years (unlikley) we could see Neil Lennon making a return to internation football but after that it may be to late

[lopez]

Personally the World Cup and European Championships should be open to just independent countries who are also members of the UN - no Faroes, no Scotland, no England. UEFA already have a Regions Cup to which these regions can enter a team. If the four 'home' nations want to play international football then they had their own annual chmpionship for which the two supposedly superior countries bilaterally scrapped it, or they can become independent. It's not that hard. Over a dozen European countries have achieved this feat in the past fifteen years - some even managing to become members of the EU.

NI fans supporting England? They can support Mali for all I care. But looking at the recent electoral returns about 1% support an independent NI/Ulster state. So the other 99% choose between allegiance to Britain, Ireland or don't give a monkey's.

Anyone else notice Patrick J, BA, MA Free State History trying to get back on foot.ie? Sad!

[liam88]

Aye met 'the professers' alter-ego this morning. If he wanted to come back on he should have chosen a completly new screen-name so no one new who he was and then set about making constructive points and respecting forum members...in my opinion. Round here there are loads of completly different points of view but the respect makes it work and opens up good debates-exapample this thread re. Glens

On the subject of Nord Iron adn their team i've heard about all the in-gur-land shirts (or is that rags ) being sold out daily 'up the shankill'; going to be an interesting match between the two. Was going to start a thread asking who you'd prefer to win (personally i'm not sure I really care) but might as well ask it here

Good point Lopez re. having a UK team rather than 4 seperate ones; they want unity in politics and independance in sport-isn't that a bit hypocritical of em?
Next we'll be seeing an Isle of White team soon to be followed by the isle of Skye/Man etc.

On another-hypothetical point-how about a 'Celtic' international team formed of the 6 Celtic nations

[Lux Interior]

On the subject of Nord Iron adn their team i've heard about all the in-gur-land shirts (or is that rags ) being sold out daily 'up the shankill'; going to be an interesting match between the two. Was going to start a thread asking who you'd prefer to win (personally i'm not sure I really care) but might as well ask it here

Good point Lopez re. having a UK team rather than 4 seperate ones; they want unity in politics and independance in sport-isn't that a bit hypocritical of em?
Next we'll be seeing an Isle of White team soon to be followed by the isle of Skye/Man etc.

On another-hypothetical point-how about a 'Celtic' international team formed of the 6 Celtic nations

Nothing wrong with showing solidarity with another home nation, liam, hence the prevalence of England shirts, certainly around these parts.

But then again, anglophobia is in short supply up here

The only groundswell of support for a 'UK team' comes from disgruntled African nations and punters like yourself - ain't gonna happen.

And why should it? Despite 'unity' under the crown, the four main constituents of the United Kingdom have distinct and separate identities, or cultures, which are not subsumed - and so they shouldn't be - under the UK banner. I would have no affinity with a UK team, although I have mucho affinity with the UK concept. Would you like the USA to send 50 separate teams to, say, the Olympic Games?

And in any NI vs England contest, there is no question of who I want to win - the men in green. Always.

[liam88]

Fair play to ya Lux on the solidarity-I like to see Hibs do well similar ain't it.
Seriosuly I get your point of view and I respect the fact that you're still supporting Nord Iron when In-gu-land arguably have the better chance and you could get away with supporting them-fair play to you

[liam88]

For Once we are in Agreement.....any chance of me & the 4P's flag in a cocooned bubble v.the T*ns @ S.C-G.?!

will it be sold out?
Our man Bill was saying it'll be safest to watch it in a pub about 400 miles away-if you o make the trip just be careful; you know how being surrounded by green can give us the urge to jump up and start seeing Chuckie songs

[lopez]

Nothing wrong with showing solidarity with another home nation, liam, hence the prevalence of England shirts, certainly around these parts. But then again, anglophobia is in short supply up here

Nothing wrong at all, mate. But I just wonder if its 'anglophobia from bigots' when Irish people cheer on a Portuguese goalkeeper to knock out another 'home' team and 'just a bit o' crack' when the other British people do the same. I'm asking because OWM's biggest mouth had a picture of the said goalie celebrating as an avatar but is the first to call anyone from his part of the world supporting a foreign team that they feel represents the legitimate government of Ireland, a bigot.

The only groundswell of support for a 'UK team' comes from disgruntled African nations and punters like yourself .

...and the British media when none of the 'home' teams qualify for a tournament as they did in 1994.

...ain't gonna happen. And why should it? Despite 'unity' under the crown, the four main constituents of the United Kingdom have distinct and separate identities, or cultures, which are not subsumed - and so they shouldn't be - under the UK banner.

You're not trying to say that Northern Ireland is a country in the proper sense of the word are you? Like Wales and Scotland with their own indigenous language and culture? My God, I need a laugh after the sad departure of PJ. Marching through areas where you're not welcomed and p*ssing in people's gardens on the grounds of their religion might be culture in your part of the world, but it isn't for the rest of us - including most of your fellow Britons.

I would have no affinity with a UK team, although I have mucho affinity with the UK concept. Would you like the USA to send 50 separate teams to, say, the Olympic Games?

As Liam says, that's a bit hypocritical, non? A case of having the cake and eating it as well? As for would I like the US to send 50 seperate teams to the Olympics? Erm, no. I'd like them to send just one thanks, just as I'd like them to send one to the World Cup.

[Lux Interior]

Nothing wrong at all, mate. But I just wonder if its 'anglophobia from bigots' when Irish people cheer on a Portuguese goalkeeper to knock out another 'home' team and 'just a bit o' crack' when the other British people do the same. I'm asking because OWM's biggest mouth had a picture of the said goalie celebrating as an avatar but is the first to call anyone from his part of the world supporting a foreign team that they feel represents the legitimate government of Ireland, a bigot.
...and the British media when none of the 'home' teams qualify for a tournament as they did in 1994.

You're not trying to say that Northern Ireland is a country in the proper sense of the word are you? Like Wales and Scotland with their own indigenous language and culture? My God, I need a laugh after the sad departure of PJ. Marching through areas where you're not welcomed and p*ssing in people's gardens on the grounds of their religion might be culture in your part of the world, but it isn't for the rest of us - including most of your fellow Britons.

As Liam says, that's a bit hypocritical, non? A case of having the cake and eating it as well? As for would I like the US to send 50 seperate teams to the Olympics? Erm, no. I'd like them to send just one thanks, just as I'd like them to send one to the World Cup.

Pt#1 - I ain't gotta clue what you're on about here

Pt#2 - you're wrongly assuming that 'my culture' is based on marching and Orangeism - very poor stereotyping there, my friend . Of course NI is a country, whether you choose to recognise it or not (like the Irish government belatedly did in 1998 when they dropped their illegal claims of jurisdiction). And I wasn't aware that indigenous languages were base criteria for statehood - that'd hit those Yanks pretty darned-diddly hard if that were the case. Besides, like yourselves, we're just a cultural province of the UK.

pt#3 - can't see where the hypocrisy is here. I choose to remain within the UK as an Irish constituent of the whole part. As an Irish constituent of that Union, with a distinct cultural identity, I can express that Irishness, for example, through support of my own football team. The US analogy was a fair one. Each state has it's own separate governments and there are many varied creeds and colours within that geographical area, yet all constituent parts of the USA. You see where this is going now ....... ?

Good boy

[lopez]

Pt#1 - I ain't gotta clue what you're on about here:

Slightly moving away from the topic but the question is simple. Is an Irishman that supports England opponents a 'bigot' and a non-English Briton that does likewise 'just having a bit o' crack.'

Pt#2 - you're wrongly assuming that 'my culture' is based on marching and Orangeism - very poor stereotyping there, my friend . Of course NI is a country, whether you choose to recognise it or not (like the Irish government belatedly did in 1998 when they dropped their illegal claims of jurisdiction). And I wasn't aware that indigenous languages were base criteria for statehood - that'd hit those Yanks pretty darned-diddly hard if that were the case. Besides, like yourselves, we're just a cultural province of the UK.

NI a country? If you say so. I believe there are people that look like Pierluigi Colina on Mars. The US a country? Didn't it fight and achieve its independence in the eighteenth century, although if it waited 180 years more it would have got it without a single shot? As for culture, touchy or what Lux, did you think that I was suggesting you wore the hi-vi and bowler yourself? Poor stereotyping there too.

For someone that tries to play down the differences between Irish and British culture by suggesting that Irish is a dead language and Ireland is a 'cultural province of the UK' you seem keen on boosting up the differences between the four 'home' 'nations (sic)'. My opinion on cultural terms is that NI is Irish or British. What do I see in the Aldergrove gift shop? The same kitsch I see in Cork airport. Where's the bears with the sash and lembeg drum? Scotland has a language, highland games, poets speaking in a hybrid of English and Scottish, and a history predating its own union with England. Wales has an indigenous language spoken by a substantial minority. This doesn't suggest that they are nation-states and the US isn't, but it does suggest that they have a clearer identity than NI. Name me one thing that differs NI culture from either the rest of Ireland or Britain that doesn't involve the Dutch homosexual's victory over his father-in-law? Hmm? Ulster-Scots? Colin Bateman? Ulster fry? The Cruithin? Johnny Adair's tattoos?

pt#3 - can't see where the hypocrisy is here. I choose to remain within the UK as an Irish constituent of the whole part. As an Irish constituent of that Union, with a distinct cultural identity, I can express that Irishness, for example, through support of my own football team. The US analogy was a fair one. Each state has it's own separate governments and there are many varied creeds and colours within that geographical area, yet all constituent parts of the USA. You see where this is going now ....... ? Good boy

So the USA is the only multi-state nation in the world?

As for this 'Irish constituent in Britain' feeling, that's what I have. I'd describe yourself more as a 'British constituent in Ireland', except one that vetos the majority's right to self-determination. Anyway whatever makes you happy. It's just the changing wallpaper of your life amuses me. Using your 'Britishness' one minute, then falling on your 'Irishness' the next, different passports for different occasions, then your 'Ulsterness' or 'Northern-Irishness' when the other two have failed in an argument suggests someone with an identity crisis in denial, not someone with the mono-cultural identity they claim to hold.

[ballyhenryglens]

i find it strange that we should suddenly be having a debate on the british/irish culture-in a football related thread loosely based on the glens displays in europe!!
from the minute sensitive issues such as 'an all ireland league' or 'an all ireland team', was brought into this thread we all knew that sooner or later we were all going to get 'political'.-----i suppose some people are interested to see what way 'northern' lads react when contencious issues are brought up.--i would be the 1st to agree that 'northern ireland' is a complex issue-and indeed very interesting to debate-but unfortunatly what happens is comments start flying from both sides in a debate which is never from the off set for the 'feint hearted'--then before we know it, all hell breaks loose, and the moderator is struggling to control the situation.

i enjoy 'political' debate.---i would perhaps not be classed as one of the more moderate glenmen, and some of my views on ulster might have a few lads here foaming at the mouth!!

but i am not going to reveal them on a 'football' related thread.----i think it more appropriate that for such debates to be discussed on the non football section-G.O.T.

if anyone does wish to start a thread there and it is of interest, i myself will contribute to the debate-----but this wee section should be left free of such politics, and for purely football related matters only.

[liam88]

like yourselves, we're just a cultural province of the UK.

You'tr tuining your own argumant here with a stupid comment-the Republic of Ireland is NOT part of the yoo-kay; simple as that

I believe there are people that look like Pierluigi Colina on Mars.

There are!

Name me one thing that differs NI culture from either the rest of Ireland or Britain that doesn't involve the Dutch homosexual's victory over his father-in-law? Hmm? Ulster-Scots? Colin Bateman? Ulster fry? The Cruithin? Johnny Adair's tattoos?

It is just a British-influenced part of Ireland. Thinjk it was Brendy telling me that Derry is just like living anywhere else in Ireland apart from the murals and police; Belfast is an Irish/British culture clash-just look at Falls, Shankill......
Talking of mad dog whatever happend to the ol' eejit......I've heard rumours he's batting for the other side now days and I'm not talking Nationalist/Loyalist

i enjoy 'political' debate.---i would perhaps not be classed as one of the more moderate glenmen, and some of my views on ulster might have a few lads here foaming at the mouth!!

but i am not going to reveal them on a 'football' related thread.----i think it more appropriate that for such debates to be discussed on the non football section-G.O.T.

EVERYONE TO OFF TOPIC!!!!!!!

[Lux Interior]

Slightly moving away from the topic but the question is simple. Is an Irishman that supports England opponents a 'bigot' and a non-English Briton that does likewise 'just having a bit o' crack.'

NI a country? If you say so. I believe there are people that look like Pierluigi Colina on Mars. The US a country? Didn't it fight and achieve its independence in the eighteenth century, although if it waited 180 years more it would have got it without a single shot? As for culture, touchy or what Lux, did you think that I was suggesting you wore the hi-vi and bowler yourself? Poor stereotyping there too.

For someone that tries to play down the differences between Irish and British culture by suggesting that Irish is a dead language and Ireland is a 'cultural province of the UK' you seem keen on boosting up the differences between the four 'home' 'nations (sic)'. My opinion on cultural terms is that NI is Irish or British. What do I see in the Aldergrove gift shop? The same kitsch I see in Cork airport. Where's the bears with the sash and lembeg drum? Scotland has a language, highland games, poets speaking in a hybrid of English and Scottish, and a history predating its own union with England. Wales has an indigenous language spoken by a substantial minority. This doesn't suggest that they are nation-states and the US isn't, but it does suggest that they have a clearer identity than NI. Name me one thing that differs NI culture from either the rest of Ireland or Britain that doesn't involve the Dutch homosexual's victory over his father-in-law? Hmm? Ulster-Scots? Colin Bateman? Ulster fry? The Cruithin? Johnny Adair's tattoos?
So the USA is the only multi-state nation in the world?

As for this 'Irish constituent in Britain' feeling, that's what I have. I'd describe yourself more as a 'British constituent in Ireland', except one that vetos the majority's right to self-determination. Anyway whatever makes you happy. It's just the changing wallpaper of your life amuses me. Using your 'Britishness' one minute, then falling on your 'Irishness' the next, different passports for different occasions, then your 'Ulsterness' or 'Northern-Irishness' when the other two have failed in an argument suggests someone with an identity crisis in denial, not someone with the mono-cultural identity they claim to hold.

You were doing so well there until the veto-part-thingy about the "majoritys right ot self-determination".

The "majority" continually exercise their right to "self-determine" via the Westminister elections. Wishy-washy, misty-eyed, green-tinted nonsense about "self-determination", from a 32-point of view, has been subsumed within the confines of the Belfast Agreement through the principle of consent.

Irish first, then British. I hope that's clear enough for you