Goals Can Come From Anywhere

**James** · 04/12/2001, 2:35 PM

Originally posted by Gerry Desmond

MBs can make fans more informed, offer a chance to float ideas, let off steam even have a laugh.

exactly...my point...why do we always have to assume that just because things are going well on the pitch that they are so good off the pitch...many mnay people dont know whats going on.. some of us hear things stories have observations..why not share/ discuss them..with people here..try to inform others of whats going on etc etc...i think that every criticism I have of the board and of Liam Murphy as a manager is justified and I have yet to hear anyone actually disprove any of my points...all I hear is oh we are doing well ..shut up stop complaining..

and there were some going on about oh thats the usual cork thing..fickle supporters etc etc always complaining..
well its very easy to complain when things aretn going well and you're losing...BUT when things are going well as they are now and when we won the cup in 98...lots of things get glossed over ..

**James** · 04/12/2001, 2:43 PM

Originally posted by Gerry Desmond

I've suggested earlier that questions be put to the directors; I wouldn't suggest here as a likely place to draw a response.

We all want a team and a club to be proud of, what would be the point otherwise? Take my word for it: questions are being asked here that aren't gonna be answered here. I've tried to make this clear, but it seems like the message is getting lost somewhere...

Gerry

Gerry, when or where is the correct forum to do so.
before Micheal O Leary turned up at a supporters club meeting...when had a director ever turned?
this year it only IMO happened because of other reasons..and not because they were asked and simply said yes..they had to be pushed,pressured and threatened into turning up..

As far as I know Liam Murphy has been asked to turn up at one supporters club meeting..yet he cant find the time ie 1 hour to turn up to answer question from supporters club members that week in week out sell lotto tickets,buy lotto tickets , sell programmes, do stewarding at games and support the club in general..

Dereck Mounfield....was doing results wise much much worse then Liam Murphy as a manager...yet he turned up!!!

whats gunther afraid of ?

**Pablo** · 04/12/2001, 2:43 PM

as i said before the club is not being run professionally. absolutly no doubt about that. My point is the stadium has been developed, the team is winning, we have some fine young local talent, the crowds are up and will get better over the next few matches.

ok, if winning trophies and supporting a good local team who are doing well isnt enough what would ye suggest is an acceptable position for CCFC to be in?

Gerry Desmond · 04/12/2001, 2:58 PM

Originally posted by James

exactly...my point...why do we always have to assume that just because things are going well on the pitch that they are so good off the pitch...many mnay people dont know whats going on.. some of us hear things stories have observations..why not share/ discuss them..with people here..try to inform others of whats going on etc etc...i think that every criticism I have of the board and of Liam Murphy as a manager is justified and I have yet to hear anyone actually disprove any of my points...all I hear is oh we are doing well ..shut up stop complaining..

and there were some going on about oh thats the usual cork thing..fickle supporters etc etc always complaining..
well its very easy to complain when things aretn going well and you're losing...BUT when things are going well as they are now and when we won the cup in 98...lots of things get glossed over ..

I take your point, James BUT mine is that it's unrealistic to expect the Board of CCFC to get involved in the debate here.

1) Please don't assume that if I suggest everything is going well on the pitch that the implication is that everything must be hunkydory off of it as well. I've rarely known the two to go hand in hand.
2) I accept some people don't like Liam Murphy's style of management: fine. My argument would be that he has a job to do and he's doing it fairly well as far as I can judge at least. The results bear this up.
3) However, it should be remembered that he is not in the position all that long and he has transformed the team from a struggling outfit to serious championship contenders.
4) He has been brave enough to try different formations 4-5-1, 3-5-2 etc, but wise enough to call it a day when they haven't worked out.
5) He is also very prepared to change team selection early in a game. This leaves him open to the suggestion that he picked the wrong team/player, but my point would be that he can see the problem and addresses it as soon as he sees it.
6) Like everyone else there is a chance that he will blossom even more as he learns more etc etc.
7) Give the guy a chance. The club was in turmoil this time last season - is he expected to make everything rosy overnight?
8) He's not afraid to throw the kids in, which was a justifiable criticism of most previous CCFC managers
9) You are 100% correct about the state of things around the time of the 98 Cup win...

Gerry

**Troy.McClure** · 04/12/2001, 2:59 PM

Originally posted by James

i think that every criticism I have of the board and of Liam Murphy as a manager is justified and I have yet to hear anyone actually disprove any of my points...all I hear is oh we are doing well ..shut up stop complaining..

and there were some going on about oh thats the usual cork thing..fickle supporters etc etc always complaining..
well its very easy to complain when things aretn going well and you're losing...BUT when things are going well as they are now and when we won the cup in 98...lots of things get glossed over ..

You have heard it before, and you'll hear it again, "Managers are judged on their results". Some one posted Murphy's record and I think that it was something like Played 29 ; Points 60. Thats a record anyone would be proud of. Who is a better manager, Mick McCarthy or Louis Van Halle? Id say LVH but who resigned this autmn and who is going to Japan? Its results that keep you in your job and thats what Murphy is doing, so lay off. His buys have been excelent and he has us as title contenders, unlike the last 2 years.

I was the one who said that City fans were fickle after the "Gunther Brigade" all came out in force after we lost to $hels after a string of good results. None of them had said anything for quite a while until we lost that match & suddenly they were there again. Coincidance? I think not

**Troy.McClure** · 04/12/2001, 3:01 PM

Too right Gerry

**pete** · 04/12/2001, 3:05 PM

[/begin rant]

If the Directors are businessmen of any credibility they should know its much much cheaper to retain existing customers (to an extent we are customers of some degree) than to go out & find new customers.

If the club were sufficiently organised they would realise there will be 5k+ city supporters at the cup game of which maybe up to 2k hadn't attended the cross this season yet. Win or lose the club should seek to retain as much of these 'customers' as possible for the next game.

However since there is no club organisation the only means of retaining the 'customers' is if the club win.

[end rant/]

**James** · 04/12/2001, 3:10 PM

oh dead right here is not the place for the directors to get involved nor would i expect them to here...i beleive it was joseph who raised that..i merely have been trying to voice my concerns..to the masses that while we are doing well on the park all is not roses in the CCFC garden!!!

BUT where is the place to ask these question..

gunther i dont beleive is the right man for the job..thats all i'm saying..i support what he has done and is doing 100% ..and fair play to the players for getting the results in recent games..

now gunther

it's players win matches not managers

Unexplainables
i mean carey on the right side of midfield when clearly he has been one if not the best full back with hoggie in the league

playing deccie right back - was skinned against rover v Billy woods
seems to me like he was just trying to find a place to play him!

not playing napier - our player of the year last year, and someone who clearly gave his all for city whenever he played

getting rid of both right wingers...colin o brien and tynan a player with bags of potential..if not the finished product yet

and that whole 451 thing.what was that about..tactically i still think the man is inept..

BUT the players are doing the business on the park...and clearly now is not the time to upset the status quo

City for the league....eh Ollie

**James** · 04/12/2001, 3:20 PM

Originally posted by pete
[/begin rant]

If the Directors are businessmen of any credibility they should know its much much cheaper to retain existing customers (to an extent we are customers of some degree) than to go out & find new customers.

If the club were sufficiently organised they would realise there will be 5k+ city supporters at the cup game of which maybe up to 2k hadn't attended the cross this season yet. Win or lose the club should seek to retain as much of these 'customers' as possible for the next game.

However since there is no club organisation the only means of retaining the 'customers' is if the club win.

[end rant/]

dead right Pete
according to Micheal Porter in the Harvard Business Review..standard reading for any Commerce student its up to 5 times more expensive to get a new customer then it is to retain an existing one.

but thats the problem..they dont see it as a business, nor us as customers...they see us as fools that no matter what they do or dont do will still pay our money week in week out..and then when the club is doing well they get the extra floating fans that come back and they make more money..

eg I was in the Horseshoe at the start of the season before one of the home games and clearly overheard a City director laughing to one of his buddies how they screwed so many people with the price of the celtic tickets

Gerry Desmond · 04/12/2001, 3:27 PM

Originally posted by James
BUT where is the place to ask these question..

Dunno, but it ain't here!

gunther i dont beleive is the right man for the job..thats all i'm saying..i support what he has done and is doing 100% ..and fair play to the players for getting the results in recent games..

now gunther

it's players win matches not managers

And so I suppose it's managers who lose them not players?

Unexplainables
i mean carey on the right side of midfield when clearly he has been one if not the best full back with hoggie in the league

Others could argue that he is lost as a full back and hasd more to offer in a more advanced role...

playing deccie right back - was skinned against rover v Billy woods
seems to me like he was just trying to find a place to play him!

I've seen Carey play poorly at right back also...

not playing napier - our player of the year last year, and someone who clearly gave his all for city whenever he played

I too think Stephen should be in. Murph disagrees, obviously, and he's the boss. If I were to argue with him he'll point to his results. What would I point at: might have beens and maybes?

getting rid of both right wingers...colin o brien and tynan a player with bags of potential..if not the finished product yet

There may be reasons for one of those, and I'm NOT getting into that here. I would say it had very little to do with talent on the pitch, however.

and that whole 451 thing.what was that about..tactically i still think the man is inept..

I've explained that before...he erred on the side of caution fair enough, but, even then, it was a player's mistake that cost him the home tie and also in fact an aggregate success: who was it that said manager's lose matches?

BUT the players are doing the business on the park...and clearly now is not the time to upset the status quo

City for the league....eh Ollie

How are you surviving not getting to the Cross, James?

Gerry

**James** · 04/12/2001, 3:37 PM

eh its tough surviving gerry..looking forward to those programmes from you if the bloody things ever get here..but i find a good stiff whiskey and lots of beer and a long telephone call home does the trick..(next phone bill is going to kill me)
Man u really gota learn how to use the edit quote thing properly...bloody hard to read your points...(or maybe there werent any there

)

of course players lose games...just as much as they win them
devine knocked us out of the cup in the replay IMO.. etc etc thats not what i was suggesting for a second..

no way about carey..definately a full back and a bloody good one.

no arguement about deccie so..he has no longer gotten a place on the side..clearly he is too slow..he was when i left and i doubt he has gotten any faster in the mean time...every time i have seen the ball go near him in the last 2 years i have to worry about what he's going to do with it...if he misses the hoof

**joe** · 04/12/2001, 3:42 PM

First off, there was a smiley (

)attached to my comment about directors posting comments on MBs (in all my time on the net I've only seen it happen once). And I agree that this wouldn't be the right place for directors to talk to fans. And I know that questions are being raised here that won't be answered here, and possibly nowhere.

My biggest concern for this club is off-the-field. I don't think I've been too critical of the management or team this season or ever.

Pablo says:

as i said before the club is not being run professionally. absolutly no doubt about that. My point is the stadium has been developed, the team is winning, we have some fine young local talent, the crowds are up and will get better over the next few matches.

but the stadium is not our own and probably never will be (at least not with our current board IMHO) and the developments have as much, if not more, to do with the MFA/FAI as City. It's great that the team is winning and that the crowds are returning but as pete says it's imperative that something is done to keep the crowds coming. The year we lost the league to Pats we had huge crowds, yet two years later where did they go? They can't all have emigrated

. Nothing is being done, from what I can see anyway, to keep these people coming to matches even when the team are losing.

Originally posted by Gerry Desmond
7) Give the guy a chance. The club was in turmoil this time last season - is he expected to make everything rosy overnight?

Some people might say the club was in turmoil 18 months ago, but no doubt he'll be given longer than his predecessor to get those roses blooming!

Re: Carey's positioning, I didn't see Friday night's match but against a poor Galway side I didn't notice him do any more attacking than he has done from right-back all season. To think he used to play centreback for the youths!

Gerry Desmond · 04/12/2001, 4:22 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by James

Man u really gota learn...

Talking about Man U now, James - you are drinking too much!

no way about carey..definately a full back and a bloody good one.

Only making the point that some people might see him as a midfielder...players have been known to change position...

Gerry

Neil · 04/12/2001, 4:45 PM

I hate the way people talk about the way the "club was in turmoil while Mountfield was around", like as if it hadn't been in turmoil ever before that (or since then for that matter)!

Fair enough results were bad (thank you Ollie Cahill et al), but in my opinion the club as a whole had, for the first time ever, a bit of a future. There was a bit of optimism that I had never felt at the club.

Now that we are winning again, everything is supposedly ok. People are going on about "not dwelling on the negative", but it's just what the Board want: for us to forget about the way they are screwing the club and it's fans while the results are coming our way. I'm sure they are rubbing their hands with anticipation of the cash that will be floating around in the weeks to come. Plenty of golf for the boys....

**** the lot of 'em. ****s.

**Pablo** · 04/12/2001, 5:04 PM

i agree they are **** s but what can we do ? i only say dont dwell on the negative because i want us to win the league, god knows 1 championship ever is a discrace

**James** · 04/12/2001, 5:10 PM

i dont think its so much dwelling on it Pablo, as informing those that think and say "oh everything is great and fine and the club is great"...when its not

1 championship in 17 years isnt that bad
of course 2 in 18 years (touch wood) is better

look at our average placing since we were formed ( anorak job for someone ), and you'll find quiet a good average position..

**Pablo** · 04/12/2001, 5:23 PM

we are consistantly in the top 3 granted.......a city and club of Corks size should be dominating or certainly regularly wimming major EL/cups

or am i expecting too much?

Neil · 04/12/2001, 5:29 PM

Originally posted by Pablo
or am i expecting too much?

No, you're not. And this is the whole point - We should be striving for a situation where the club is expected to win the league every year.

But this can never be expected to happen with the current state of affairs. We need an ambitious Board, our own ground, a full-time pro playing staff and most of all a general set-up that entices players (young and local especially) to join.

**Pablo** · 04/12/2001, 6:05 PM

But this can never be expected to happen with the current state of affairs. We need an ambitious Board, our own ground, a full-time pro playing staff and most of all a general set-up that entices players (young and local especially) to join.

i agree with all your points....bar the ground . THE CROSS IS JUST FINE....WE HAVE A LONG LEASE ON IT NOW ANYWAY I BELIVE....... but the full time setup is a must.