Enda Stevens D Stoke City b.1990

[samhaydenjr]

He definitely looks like a decent left full from what I've seen of him. Balance wise it makes sense for Mick to keep him there as much as possible. With Coleman on the right and Duffy and Keogh in the middle of the back four, the Irish defence is beginning to show signs of stability ahead of what is an important few games (although I'm a little concerned about Duffy's form in a Brighton team which really has no business in the Premier League - let's just say he's not evolving into a Gerard Pique or Virgil Van Dijk despite playing in one of the top leagues in world football). Stevens and his Irish team mates at Sheffield United will face a real examination of their credentials next season but the experience can only help Ireland in the long run.

Well, it was unlikely to happen that Duffy would become a Virgil Van Dijk, but the goalscoring stats show that he has learned to put what abilities he has to good use - with 56 goals conceded, Brighton have a much meaner defence than any of the other teams in the bottom six. They've conceded only one more than tenth-placed Watford and only four more than ManU. Just because he isn't a different player doesn't mean he isn't a better player than he was two years ago. So until the likes of Masterson or Nolan prove themselves at senior level, we'll have to make do with high quality old-fashioned style centre-backs

[mark12345]

Well, it was unlikely to happen that Duffy would become a Virgil Van Dijk, but the goalscoring stats show that he has learned to put what abilities he has to good use - with 56 goals conceded, Brighton have a much meaner defence than any of the other teams in the bottom six. They've conceded only one more than tenth-placed Watford and only four more than ManU. Just because he isn't a different player doesn't mean he isn't a better player than he was two years ago. So until the likes of Masterson or Nolan prove themselves at senior level, we'll have to make do with high quality old-fashioned style centre-backs

That is true - we will have to make do with Duffy and Keogh as centre-halves for Ireland. Can't fault their commitment at all - they give 110 per cent every time they pull on a green shirt. However neither one of them is international standard - they just happen to be playing international football.

[Cathalsmart]

That is true - we will have to make do with Duffy and Keogh as centre-halves for Ireland. Can't fault their commitment at all - they give 110 per cent every time they pull on a green shirt. However neither one of them is international standard - they just happen to be playing international football.

International standard...Jesus fcuking christ. Secondly how is Duffy not international standard, or do you need to be world class to be considered international class?

[Kingdom]

It's not an easy gig for him and I can't see it getting any easier next term. In fairness to Duffy he played an absolute blinder against Arsenal on Sunday and I believe he got MOTM.
However he is not the type of defender Ireland needs in the middle of the back four, and neither is Keogh for that matter.
Both lads are great at sticking their head to the ball or hoofing it out over the halfway line. The problem at internaitonal level is, as we have seen for decades now, that the ball keeps coming back at you as the pressure builds.
We need the type of defender who can take the ball on his chest, play short passes and begin moves that will put the opposition under pressure.
That is in a perfect world, however, and I fear we are still light years from that type of football at internaitonal level.

The emboldened, underlined elements of your post do not tally.

Richard Keogh might be a lot of things - a 'nam survivor being one of them anytime I see him concentrate - but a hoofer of the football he is not. I've been accused of making posts too long, or having off-the-wall opinions about some of our players, or squads, or performances, but I at least try to back up my opinion with facts trying to use the best of my limited ability to link video clips etc.
For two campaigns I have solidly criticised Randolph and Shane Duffy for their use of the ball - because they bloody well deserved to be criticised - as it was shameful of a pro-footballer to do what they do in possession. This carried over to the very first minute of the game against Gibraltar, when despite playing into a gale, Shane Duffy launched a rocket up top. It was all downhill from there.

Cut to the Georgia game, and it was very noticeable how dominant Richard Keogh was in possession, only using Duffy to engineer some space for himself, and almost not using Randolph at all. He wasn't just dominant in taking ownership of the ball, it was the speed in which he wanted to get us onto the front foot. In fact he played one of the best passes I've seen by an Irish player in a few years. He got the ball around level with the 18 yd box progressed about10 yds and played an arching ball onto Dave McGoldrick (or possibly Hendrick) just beyond the centre circle, completely cutting out two Georgians.

So I disagree that Richard Keogh isn't a technically profficient centre-back.

[DeLorean]

He carries the ball out of defence and initiates attacks very well for Derby. He's certainly not a hoofer. He tends to take less risks for us, particular against more serious opposition, which is understandable and somewhat comforting!

[SkStu]

The emboldened, underlined elements of your post do not tally.

Richard Keogh might be a lot of things - a 'nam survivor being one of them anytime I see him concentrate - but a hoofer of the football he is not. I've been accused of making posts too long, or having off-the-wall opinions about some of our players, or squads, or performances, but I at least try to back up my opinion with facts trying to use the best of my limited ability to link video clips etc.
For two campaigns I have solidly criticised Randolph and Shane Duffy for their use of the ball - because they bloody well deserved to be criticised - as it was shameful of a pro-footballer to do what they do in possession. This carried over to the very first minute of the game against Gibraltar, when despite playing into a gale, Shane Duffy launched a rocket up top. It was all downhill from there.

Cut to the Georgia game, and it was very noticeable how dominant Richard Keogh was in possession, only using Duffy to engineer some space for himself, and almost not using Randolph at all. He wasn't just dominant in taking ownership of the ball, it was the speed in which he wanted to get us onto the front foot. In fact he played one of the best passes I've seen by an Irish player in a few years. He got the ball around level with the 18 yd box progressed about10 yds and played an arching ball onto Dave McGoldrick (or possibly Hendrick) just beyond the centre circle, completely cutting out two Georgians.

So I disagree that Richard Keogh isn't a technically profficient centre-back.

Too long, didn't read.

In seriousness, completely agree. And I also agree with Del that from what I have seen from Derby this season he is very capable of bringing the ball out and finding a pass. It is less obvious in an Ireland shirt that he has this ability especially because, under O'Neill, he was playing in a "system" that essentially forced midfielders to turn their backs and give very few options for an out pass. Playing beside Duffy, he had very little in terms of options and I think was forced to pass long more often than is his natural style.

[mark12345]

International standard...Jesus fcuking christ. Secondly how is Duffy not international standard, or do you need to be world class to be considered international class?

How is he not international standard? Well take a pen and paper and write down the number of times he just belts the ball out of the back for Brighton. All well and good that he is averting the danger but he is as predictable as daybreak to opposing teams and all they do is outnumber Duffy's teammate and take back possession like it was wrapped up with a ribbon in a gift box. An international standard defender should be able to take a high ball on his chest and distribute it to a team mate with one touch, and make himself available for a return pass if necessary. With that type of ability Duffy (or any centre back) begins a move that will hopefully result in a period of attacking play for his team. It's no big revelation - it's what we have been watching on television for a long time now. I honestly don't know if Shane is capable of doing that - to be honest I'm quite sure he is. But for some reason, he is not incorporating this type of play in his game. Ditto Richard Keogh.

To be honest, I don't even know why we are debating this. Do we need to wait until June for the away game in Denmark to see it in its full glory? Or can we just accept it as fact now?

[mark12345]

The emboldened, underlined elements of your post do not tally.

Richard Keogh might be a lot of things - a 'nam survivor being one of them anytime I see him concentrate - but a hoofer of the football he is not. I've been accused of making posts too long, or having off-the-wall opinions about some of our players, or squads, or performances, but I at least try to back up my opinion with facts trying to use the best of my limited ability to link video clips etc.
For two campaigns I have solidly criticised Randolph and Shane Duffy for their use of the ball - because they bloody well deserved to be criticised - as it was shameful of a pro-footballer to do what they do in possession. This carried over to the very first minute of the game against Gibraltar, when despite playing into a gale, Shane Duffy launched a rocket up top. It was all downhill from there.

Cut to the Georgia game, and it was very noticeable how dominant Richard Keogh was in possession, only using Duffy to engineer some space for himself, and almost not using Randolph at all. He wasn't just dominant in taking ownership of the ball, it was the speed in which he wanted to get us onto the front foot. In fact he played one of the best passes I've seen by an Irish player in a few years. He got the ball around level with the 18 yd box progressed about10 yds and played an arching ball onto Dave McGoldrick (or possibly Hendrick) just beyond the centre circle, completely cutting out two Georgians.

So I disagree that Richard Keogh isn't a technically profficient centre-back.

As luck would have it I did not see the Georgia game. I think Keogh got a raw deal recently when dropped by MON for no apparent reason (based on the alternatives). But with Denmark or Switzerland pinning us down in our own half, in the upcoming matches, do you honestly think Richard has the courage to play it out of the back and set up a chance at the other end? I don't. I am not knocking Keogh's or Duffy's commitment - it is first rate - but their effectiveness (or maybe it's a lack of courage to play the ball out from the back) is very apparent. Having said that you did point out that he looked quite good in this department against Georgia. Maybe he has turned the corner? I would be over the moon to see him turn into a ball playing defender who poses a threat to other teams.

[tetsujin1979]

Surely playing international football makes you international class?

[mark12345]

Surely playing international football makes you international class?

One way of looking at it I suppose. But would the same apply to an international playing for Andorra or Gibraltar verus one playing for Spain or Germany. Different standards?

[DeLorean]

Maybe it's term that should be avoided as it doesn't make a lot of sense. If Spain or Germany are the benchmark, then we don't have any international class centre backs and probably won't for a long time.

[samhaydenjr]

I think International Class means being good enough to play international football without looking out of your depth for the most part, but may run into trouble against Top Class and World-Class players.

[DeLorean]

I think International Class means being good enough to play international football without looking out of your depth for the most part, but may run into trouble against Top Class and World-Class players.

You're probably right and I think Duffy and Keogh would be okay under that criteria, neither have looked out of their depth for the most part. And basically every defender runs into trouble against world class players.

[jbyrne]

He carries the ball out of defence and initiates attacks very well for Derby. He's certainly not a hoofer. He tends to take less risks for us, particular against more serious opposition, which is understandable and somewhat comforting!

central to two of derbys goals tonight against leeds by taking the ball forward. the winner was superbly set up by keogh

[paul_oshea]

I think International Class means being good enough to play international football without looking out of your depth for the most part, but may run into trouble against Top Class and World-Class players.

Pretty simple and pretty obvious I'd have thought.

[OwlsFan]

central to two of derbys goals tonight against leeds by taking the ball forward. the winner was superbly set up by keogh

Yes, great run by Keogh and then a lovely lay off to put the scorer through.

[DeLorean]

It was an inspiring burst forward from him. Did he intend to put the pass that far in front of Marriott? I'm not sure he did but it worked out perfectly as it made Marriott's mind up for him, as he was forced to dink it first time instead of taking a another touch. It would be lovely to see Keogh exorcise his demons by lifting the playoff trophy at Wembley. He's received plenty of stick over the years but he's been a key man for every Derby manager in his time there, and there's been a few.

[Charlie Darwin]

I honestly don't know if Shane is capable of doing that - to be honest I'm quite sure he is. But for some reason, he is not incorporating this type of play in his game. Ditto Richard Keogh.

Bad timing to say this considering Keogh went and set up the winner in the play-offs a couple of days after.

[CraftyToePoke]

Set up two of the goals, or was involved high up the pitch in the earlier one definitely, played on half way all night when they were in possession & was on the ball a lot, handled Mr Bamford well too, had his measure throughout on and off the ball.

[MancIrishWolf]

Getting high praise from the Fans. Player of the (short) season so far and most easily adapted to this level being muted. Could be the Doherty of this season. Great to see the left side being shored up with Manning coming through also...

https://www.s24su.com/forum/index.ph...ds/enda.74788/