LoI/GAA discussion

[Spudulika]

B2W, Primary schools might not be as off limits as you might think. Schools are desperate for activities and rugby showed this 10-11 years ago. Dundalk RFC did a great job in getting into GAA strongholds and while I think the IRFU blinked instead of keeping up the drive, it did take a couple of decent lads away from the GAA. I'd forgotten the Jesuit maxim, though it's true, get 'em young and keep them. Local football clubs are sometimes too busy just existing, LOI clubs the same (especially in the past) and the GAA just took advantage of this. I went to a school a stones throw from Dalyer and while it was GAA, basketball and water polo that were the staples, a football team was set up and was brilliant. Yet Bohs not once lent a hand or even showed interest - however Tolka Rovers donated a bag of footballs and 2 goalposts.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

As I commented before about the bitterness of a large section of LOI supporters. If it's not the EPL, it's the GAA's fault the LOI is a running joke that the general population care not a jot about.

Get a grip with the victim complex, seriously.

[marinobohs]

As I commented before about the bitterness of a large section of LOI supporters. If it's not the EPL, it's the GAA's fault the LOI is a running joke that the general population care not a jot about.

Get a grip with the victim complex, seriously.

Chillax there TA,the thread was about what (if anything) LOI can adopt from the more successfull GAA model - hardly the "B" word and actually a compliment on their superior organisation

Equally hardly a surprise a few sly digs are thrown their way, the same as GAA has always done to LOI (at least we didn't ban people)

[Spudulika]

MB, you just justified why people behave like idiots towards another sports code - because they perceive the same being done to them, which is the victim mentality. Hopefully the wummers and wallies will be bored of such nonsense (not putting you in either group) and TA is right in way to mention that the blame game is too easy to make. Reading Who Stole Our Game can rid anyone of such dunderheadedness, the LOI and Irish football loves doing a Maxi on itself more often than not.

But you know, I always held Bohs in high esteem for the work they were doing at grassroots (despite them not helping out when our school contacted them - Bohs were probably in the right) though in 2010 I was shocked when they seemed to walk away from youth development, has this changed? By walk away I mean they got rid of coaching staff and lost a number of young lads (I'd seen them play in the youth and A finals).

[marinobohs]

MB, you just justified why people behave like idiots towards another sports code - because they perceive the same being done to them, which is the victim mentality. Hopefully the wummers and wallies will be bored of such nonsense (not putting you in either group) and TA is right in way to mention that the blame game is too easy to make. Reading Who Stole Our Game can rid anyone of such dunderheadedness, the LOI and Irish football loves doing a Maxi on itself more often than not.

But you know, I always held Bohs in high esteem for the work they were doing at grassroots (despite them not helping out when our school contacted them - Bohs were probably in the right) though in 2010 I was shocked when they seemed to walk away from youth development, has this changed? By walk away I mean they got rid of coaching staff and lost a number of young lads (I'd seen them play in the youth and A finals).

Spud, I dont think this thread was a 'bitching' session about GAA and saw nothing in the thread anywhere near as abusive as your average GAA head or EPL 'fan' would say about LOI. Would you really expect people on here to be gushing about GAA given their behaviour towards LOI - Tallaght, RDS debacle, ban etc ? Not their (GAA) fault the LOI is a basket case but not like they ever did anything to help either. I saw nothing in the thread apart from healthy distain for GAA, certainly nobodywith a can of petrol.

Bohs did have to curtail our schoolboy set up (on cost grounds) still maintaining a vibrant set up which we will be dependent on in coming seasons. Number of decent players progressed to first team last season (Forrester, Buckley,Traynor,Lopez etc) and given financial constraints some more will get an oppurtunity this season. Youth development one of the key areas our new manager has highlighted.

[Spudulika]

Point taken MB (on the GAA thing). I know you put some positives in the thread and can see both sides, which is the way it should be.

What I saw of the underage sides with Bohs was impressive. And when I heard that they were cost cutting (while I understood the rationale), the club needs the influx of young players. I'm really glad to hear that the youngsters aren't lost, Lopez, for one, I was impressed with the year before last and there is definitely successful future for Bohs if they can hang onto 2-3 players each season who break through. With a little luck and a couple of extra heads, the club will be more than able to compete for Europe.

[Straightstory]

The GAA's institutionalized brawling is very entertaining. Maybe we could introduce something like that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es2nH...eature=related

[Spudulika]

Nah, unless it involves waving an umbrella, dressing in Burberry and running at the first sight of a skelp, it won't work on the field. It's a great testament to the GAA that a row in an under-15 match (Division 2) up in Crossmolina can get the national media all het up, then nothing. I have a conspiratorial suspicion that it's part of an overall GAA plan to dominate the meeja year round.

[gormacha]

No argument RE player loyalty to clubs (currently) but as I said that will erode in GAA with payment to players making them more mobile as in LOI. That legend of GAA Mick O'Dwyer has led the way already along with many other managers and I expect that trend to continue down to players.

I think player payment in the GAA along the lines of what might be expected in any professionalised sport is highly unlikely. It happens with GAA managers because their are a finite number of managerial positions, thereby limiting the exposure of any county board to one salary/expenses. Even with a relatively short meaningful season, almost all counties could bear the burden of paying a manager.

If you expanded this to a squad of players though, it would immediately become impossible to sustain. There simply aren't enough meaningful games to generate the kind of income that would allow professionalisation. In hurling for example, there are only nine competitive counties. And any move to artificially expand the amount of games beyond the "back door system" wouldn't be tolerated.

Anyway, there is no hunger for professionalisation amomngst players. Even Kilkenny hurlers (who you would imagine would stand to gain more than most) are against it, as they understand the link between amateurism and identity as being key to GAA dominance. I think they'd like a tickle from the promotional monies, but this is different to professionalisation.

As for LoI learning from the GAA - Spud makes many really strong points. However, association football and GAA emerge from such different social and cultural milieu that is difficult to envisage any cross-learning. LoI is (semi)pro, GAA is not. LoI is (mainly) urban, GAA is (mainly) rural. LoI is (mainly) working class, GAA crosses class boundaries much more. LoI is not linked to religion, GAA is. LoI does not draw on cultural and social elites, GAA can and does. LoI is not the sport of the ruling classes, GAA is. The depth of difference on all these and more is such that, as much as I - for example - envy the strength of identity that GAA clubs enjoy with players, LoI clubs can never reproduce this. Nor could the GAA, for example, ever sustain a forty or fifty game season that would engage their supporters, even if they were winning, let alone having a tough season.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

Chillax there TA,the thread was about what (if anything) LOI can adopt from the more successfull GAA model - hardly the "B" word and actually a compliment on their superior organisation

Equally hardly a surprise a few sly digs are thrown their way, the same as GAA has always done to LOI (at least we didn't ban people)

Oh yeah and soccer people don't throw digs in on the GAA? You on many soccer forums, the bitterness drips out of LOI people when it comes to the GAA. I put it down to jealousy.

I support both sports and couldn't care less about other sports. Good luck to them all, it's just sport at the end of the day. In terms of brawling in GAA games, it's a mans game. Some hits you, you hit them back. I should know; I'm presently suspended for it

[nigel-harps1954]

Oh yeah and soccer people don't throw digs in on the GAA? You on many soccer forums, the bitterness drips out of LOI people when it comes to the GAA. I put it down to jealousy.

I support both sports and couldn't care less about other sports. Good luck to them all, it's just sport at the end of the day. In terms of brawling in GAA games, it's a mans game. Some hits you, you hit them back. I should know; I'm presently suspended for it

I would imagine the only way anyone would have reason to be jealous of the GAA is the amount of money being literally thrown at them. Massive stadia, massive crowds, massive merchandise sales, but it's all thrown at them. Nazi Propaganda I tells ya.

If the LOI had the same media exposure and public pressure and government money thrown at it, I'd have no doubt we'd be a top European League.

[Spudulika]

I would imagine the only way anyone would have reason to be jealous of the GAA is the amount of money being literally thrown at them. Massive stadia, massive crowds, massive merchandise sales, but it's all thrown at them. Nazi Propaganda I tells ya.

If the LOI had the same media exposure and public pressure and government money thrown at it, we'd have no League.

Fixed that for you

Gormacha your final paragraph put the situation down as it should be. One little difference I could offer is that the LOI has grown a little beyond a working class base, just in the sense that younger supporters now would be better educated/off than their grandparents etc.

TA, I'd hesitate saying jealousy, I'd just put it down to having no faith in one's own product or belief. Put it this way, Croats spend their time saying how great they are and their country is, while slagging off everyone else for their problems and having endless theories of why they aren't all wealthy and happy (the EU situation is a prime example) - without a defined self-belief this happens. I think the LOI is great, with some great people involved and a worthy product, plus it brings people together and gives hope (or despair if you follow Dundalk). GAA is the same, it gives purpose to people's lives. Without both Ireland would be a lesser place.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

If the LOI had the same media exposure and public pressure and government money thrown at it, I'd have no doubt we'd be a top European League.

The GAA turned over €58 million in their last annual accounts, €67 million before that, they do alright all by themselves.

The general populations, unfortunately, don't care about the LOI. So why should the media give it the same exposure. Does the LOI sell newspapers and get people watching TV like the GAA does. No it doesn't. Ultimately the written and TV media are out to make money so they give exposure on those they're likely to get a return on. It's nothing personal.

[nigel-harps1954]

I think the point is, the GAA has it's long history of being in the public eye, everyone loves the GAA, it gets 99 of the 100 pages in a newspaper dedicated to it. It gets all the TV coverage, all the radio coverage, and is praised in every corner.

The LOI is quite the opposite. A long history of neglect, newspaper clippings, is cursed in all corners, and lives in the shadow of EPL and the old firm.

It's very simple really. If the LOI had the same exposure as the GAA there would be no problem.

[Spudulika]

Nigel, you're right in all ways, but what IF the LOI had the same exposure as the GAA? It would mean increasing the number of teams in the league - actually it would mean increasing the number of leagues. It would mean engaging the local community in order to create a brand, a feeling. It would mean, well, lots of things that the LOI cannot do on it's own, that can only come from integration and agreement between the FAI and all clubs in the country (not just LOI). The easy comparison is this:

The NHL and NFL are often forgotten and get less coverage than the sky leagues over the water over the winter, the real deal is the All-Ireland Championships, and Club Championships. So it's a better comparison between the Leagues and LOI. It would be interesting to see if the LOI and National Leagues get equal exposure. Overall, football in Ireland gets good coverage - with supplements in daily papers, write ups, when the International team play etc. So let's be realistic - we're looking at the LOI as a part of football in Ireland, it's not the FAI and be all and end all of domestic football.

[bennocelt]

I support both sports and couldn't care less about other sports. Good luck to them all, it's just sport at the end of the day. In terms of brawling in GAA games, it's a mans game. Some hits you, you hit them back. I should know; I'm presently suspended for it

get over, all that falling around and hugging in their tight shorts

and then we have this creep,lol
galvin.jpg

[Rasputin]

I support both sports and couldn't care less about other sports. Good luck to them all, it's just sport at the end of the day. In terms of brawling in GAA games, it's a mans game. Some hits you, you hit them back. I should know; I'm presently suspended for it

Haha wow, on so many levels.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

I think the point is, the GAA has it's long history of being in the public eye, everyone loves the GAA, it gets 99 of the 100 pages in a newspaper dedicated to it. It gets all the TV coverage, all the radio coverage, and is praised in every corner.

The LOI is quite the opposite. A long history of neglect, newspaper clippings, is cursed in all corners, and lives in the shadow of EPL and the old firm.

It's very simple really. If the LOI had the same exposure as the GAA there would be no problem.

Again, it's always someone else's fault. There's a reason why it doesn't get the coverage it does; the public don't care enough. As on other threads as I've always said the reason the LOI is what it's become is down to the footy supporting community in Ireland, end of. The LOI probably gets more coverage than the pitiful crowds deserve so if anything it's over exposed for the crowds it gets.

[TiocfaidhArmani]

Haha wow, on so many levels.

Bust the inside of my lip with an elbow he's lucky it was only a boot I gave him!

[Macy]

I really don't think the thread is bitter. The majority of the thread is about what or whether the LoI could learn from the GAA. Pointing out faults of the GAA approach isn't necessarily bitterness. For example, I couldn't care less that some clubs are playing players in the GAA, but it's relevant if posters are saying the ethos of the GAA is something we should be copying.

For an organisation that is, or claims to be, so dominant the ultra defensive about any criticism is a bit surprising to be honest.