Cycling 2012

**Real ale Madrid** · 18/07/2012, 1:14 PM

He was 3rd over the Tourmalet which puts him up into 5th in the KOM standings provisionally with 2 x 1 CAT climbs still to come.

**Mr A** · 18/07/2012, 2:29 PM

Ominously.. haven't seen a single mention of Roche today

Edit.. it seems he's in the group behind Wiggins, Frrome Nibali nearing the top of the last climb.. seems like a good ride but most of the rest of the top ten are there too.

**Mr A** · 18/07/2012, 3:36 PM

Martin 7th.. Roche up to 11th overall and only 4 seconds from top ten.

He should be stronger the Pinot and maybe Rolland in the TT, but Kloden may well overtake him. Great chance of top ten now. One more day in the mountains before TT becomes relevant obviously.

**Dodge** · 18/07/2012, 3:38 PM

Dan finished 7th, Roche was 14th. Roche up to 11th overall, only 4 seconds behind 10th Great ride.

Short, sharp ******* of a day tomorrow.

**Dodge** · 18/07/2012, 4:23 PM

Had a quick look at their perfoamces in the 42k ITT, the one on saturdau is 10k longer (but flatter apparently)

how the stand
9 Rolland
10 Pinot + 1.33
11 Roche +1.37
12 Kloden +3.03
13 Horner +3.38

Just the 5 of them in the ITT

Kloden
Roche +0.59
Pinot +3.03
Horner +3.15
Rolland +3.35

So if they ride the same sort of way, Kloden and Roche would be top 10. Tomorrow a big day though

**Mr A** · 18/07/2012, 4:31 PM

Yeah- that's what I had been looking at. Mad to entertain the idea of Roche playing it safe in the mountains and then using the TT as a weapon! A most welcome development.

That said, who knows what can happen at this stage after 2 and a half hard weeks. He could have a day like Evans and bomb.. or Evans could have another day like Evans and plummet down further.

Edit: Good picture from after today's stage:

**Dodge** · 18/07/2012, 4:35 PM

The thing is that he'll be the only one specifically riding for top 10. Tolland maybe but he's as likely to attack tomorrow as anyone. Pinot too. Seems Horner and Kloden are riding for the team category

**Macy** · 23/07/2012, 11:08 AM

Decent enough result for Roche. Not really sure where that leaves him going forward - make or break contract? Decent showing from Dan Martin - all a learning experience.

Overall, happy for Wiggins. Team Sky have become less transparent, but I personally still believe in them being a clean (if not very likeable) team. It was a weakened field and the course played into their hands. Rogers and Porte, and obviously Froome would be top 10 contenders in their own right - it wasn't the same as some of the USP mountain trains. I don't really get the focus on Wiggins regarding the insinuations - the real out of nowhere performances this last year have been Froome (that does make me go hmmmm).

**swinfordfc** · 23/07/2012, 11:26 AM

Roche should leave AG2R Mondiale as the fellow riders cant help him. With somemore help he would be in the top ten in the overall. He should join Radobank or Omega Pharma or Lotto - at least would support him more and push him on a little.

Dan Martin did fine in his first Tour and is highly regarded in Garmin Sharp Team. He will be a top ten rider in the Tour for sure

**Macy** · 23/07/2012, 1:14 PM

Originally Posted by swinfordfc

Roche should leave AG2R Mondiale as the fellow riders cant help him. With somemore help he would be in the top ten in the overall. He should join Radobank or Omega Pharma or Lotto - at least would support him more and push him on a little.

I don't know - it's hard to see him going to another pro tour team as a leader. AG2R don't fully commit to him, but at the same time they've given him space to try and develop as a GC rider. He's probably benefitted from the system that now might be holding him back. Garmin wouldn't be a bad fit, as they seem to manage the multiple leaders/ whoever's going best is leader, better than anyone else.

**swinfordfc** · 23/07/2012, 1:32 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

I don't know - it's hard to see him going to another pro tour team as a leader. AG2R don't fully commit to him, but at the same time they've given him space to try and develop as a GC rider. He's probably benefitted from the system that now might be holding him back. Garmin wouldn't be a bad fit, as they seem to manage the multiple leaders/ whoever's going best is leader, better than anyone else.

That true ...... Garmin would not be a bad fit but he might not be a leader in a team but he kinda wasn't this year at AG2R either with J-C Peraud being they so call main man due to the trial trialing and look how that work out. Gesink cant do it in the big races at Rabobank so that a big options as is Omega Pharma as Horner is nearing the end, granted Boonan would be look after the one day classics but Roche would be perfect for the tours. I think with Hysedral and Martin already in Garmin Sharp, there would be no room in it for Roche but they would def improve his time trialing which badly needs work - he knows that himself. He was the only rider last Saturday to ride a normal bike in the time trial - fatal error

**Dodge** · 23/07/2012, 1:53 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

the real out of nowhere performances this last year have been Froome (that does make me go hmmmm).

Froome was always talented. I remember him leading over Alpe d'Huez before falling over the edge (back when he was Kenyan woth barloworld). He was the strongest rider in last year's Vuelta too (Sky ballsed it up trying to get Wiggins the win).

Roche is definitely gone. Not sure if Garmin would take him. They don't really have a true leader. Hydersjal, Danielson and to a lesser extent Martin are more protected than outright leader (despite Ryder winning the Giro). Roche won't even win the Tour but he could maybe challenge for Vuelta if he had a team around him (think climbs in Giro too hard). Could go to a team with the likes of Van den Bruck or maybe even BMC and work as super domestique in Tour, and have leader work for him in Spain.

**swinfordfc** · 23/07/2012, 1:58 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Froome was always talented. I remember him leading over Alpe d'Huez before falling over the edge (back when he was Kenyan woth barloworld). He was the strongest rider in last year's Vuelta too (Sky ballsed it up trying to get Wiggins the win).

Roche is definitely gone. Not sure if Garmin would take him. They don't really have a true leader. Hydersjal, Danielson and to a lesser extent Martin are more protected than outright leader (despite Ryder winning the Giro). Roche won't even win the Tour but he could maybe challenge for Vuelta if he had a team around him (think climbs in Giro too hard). Could go to a team with the likes of Van den Bruck or maybe even BMC and work as super domestique in Tour, and have leader work for him in Spain.

Def cant see him with BMC ... Tejay is the bright hope there with Cadel Evans for a few more years

**Dodge** · 23/07/2012, 2:28 PM

Originally Posted by swinfordfc

Def cant see him with BMC ... Tejay is the bright hope there with Cadel Evans for a few more years

Yeah, defo not BMC. I'm not sure why I put them in.

**Macy** · 24/07/2012, 8:13 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Froome was always talented. I remember him leading over Alpe d'Huez before falling over the edge (back when he was Kenyan woth barloworld). He was the strongest rider in last year's Vuelta too (Sky ballsed it up trying to get Wiggins the win).

He was decent (not sure on him going over the side - was that not John Lee Augustyn? (spelling wrong there I think!)), but not showing anywhere near the form he has in his last two grand tours. If he was that good, and that good a prospect, it's kinda surprising that he went into the Vuelta last year without a contract offer from Sky. I'm not saying he's doped, and as I've said before I think Sky are a clean team, but if I was asking questions (as some are) about any Sky rider it would be Froome not Wiggins.

Originally Posted by Dodge

Roche is definitely gone. Not sure if Garmin would take him. They don't really have a true leader. Hydersjal, Danielson and to a lesser extent Martin are more protected than outright leader (despite Ryder winning the Giro). Roche won't even win the Tour but he could maybe challenge for Vuelta if he had a team around him (think climbs in Giro too hard). Could go to a team with the likes of Van den Bruck or maybe even BMC and work as super domestique in Tour, and have leader work for him in Spain.

I'd agree with that - whether he'd be happy to concede that at this stage, and be happy with Super Domestique role, is a different matter. Even in BMC, who basically had Van Garderen and Evans when the selection was made - Roche would be an addition there imo. There's a few in Garmin that must be past the age of genuinely challenging as well (Danielson, Vande Velde), so I wouldn't rule it out. I'd love to see him have more of a go at the hilly classics as well. He's a bit of a kick if it came down to a small group of climbers.

**Dodge** · 24/07/2012, 9:40 AM

Yeah, was Augustyn I was thinking about. Not the first time I've used that argument tis week either. D'oh!

**Mr A** · 27/07/2012, 11:44 AM

I saw in the Indo yesterday that he looks likely to go to Saxo Bank. Interesting. Obviously Contador will be their main man for the Tour.. it'll be interesting to see whether Roche is used as a super domestique for him or as leader for Giro or Vuelta. They may not keep their world tour status, mad to think they can sign AG2R and be credited with his points. Crazy, crazy system! Will AG2R now back Roche for the Vuelta? If they don't get to keep his points they may be tempted to not do so, or even not select him at all.

**Mr A** · 01/08/2012, 10:21 AM

Roche to Saxo is confirmed. It'll be interesting to see how that affects the dynamics in the Vuelta. To be honest if was running AG2R I might not even pick him- why accumulate points for a rival to take? And bizarrely it's in Saxo's interest to lend him a sneaky hand.
Edit: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/roch...k-tinkoff-bank This confirms the deal and says AG2R will continue with him as leader for the Vuelta.
Second edit: Here's Roche's announcement: http://www.independent.ie/sport/othe...e-3187112.html

Meanwhile Brameier was not named on the provisional start list I saw for the Vuelta, nor was Martin.