The Emigration Thread

[Spudulika]

Russian is supposed to be ungodly to learn though, that would be my main concern if I moved over there. Even if there were lots of Irish, I'd feel pretty ignorant just hanging around other ex-pats, a bit like those Brits who retire to the South of France and demand marmalade and the Times with their breakfast, and cringe if they're expected to speak a work of French.

:-) Oh lord, I blushed like a Sligo fan on debs night when their cousin isn't available 5 years ago in Split when I overheard a British couple (who were 2-3 years living near the city) remonstrate with a local waiter over a pizza. They went on and on in english calling him all sorts when he clearly understood them and he stood there looking shocked. Yet they were able to turn to me right after and say how they felt they fit in locally.

Russian's not too difficult to learn, I came to it from Croatian, though I learned that lingo handy enough. It's seen as difficult because of the cyrillic letters, though the language itself is okay. Forget grammar and just get on with it and the locals are good to go.

And I suppose the adventure and earning potential helps, though it's hard enough to save, it's not cheap and going out for drinks wipes out a salary quickly (painful experience). However sports are plentiful and cheap, the ice hockey is good (if poorly presented). Though to be honest I'd rather go back to Canada if I were a few years younger, not Quebec - 3 months in Montreal were enough.

[peadar1987]

:-) Oh lord, I blushed like a Sligo fan on debs night when their cousin isn't available 5 years ago in Split when I overheard a British couple (who were 2-3 years living near the city) remonstrate with a local waiter over a pizza. They went on and on in english calling him all sorts when he clearly understood them and he stood there looking shocked. Yet they were able to turn to me right after and say how they felt they fit in locally.

I was in Salzburg while interrailing with my gf in 2009, and we met a man from Mississippi, who ticked all the "American stereotype" boxes. I got drawn into an argument with him through feeling the need to defend a Canadian, who was being lectured about how he lived in a borderline fascist state that was fast on the road to becoming a socialist hell-hole like Nazi Germany. This was because of that greatest of evils, a public health care system.

I unilaterally ended the conversation due to his rage when I suggested that he might be on the same road, albeit not quite so far along, because he supported a public fire service and military.

Anyway, in between, I managed to find out that he had been living in Basel for 3 years, and did not speak a single word of either French or German. He simply hadn't bothered. I have never seen my gf look so shocked, but then again, this is the girl who, after 2 hours in Slovenia, and a fifty-word phrasebook, could tell me from a tannoy announcement that our train was delayed, and how late it would be.

Russian's not too difficult to learn, I came to it from Croatian, though I learned that lingo handy enough. It's seen as difficult because of the cyrillic letters, though the language itself is okay. Forget grammar and just get on with it and the locals are good to go.

I'd heard bad things about the grammar alright, lots of cases, lots of declensions. It does seem relatively clear though, unlike French, so once you know plenty of words, perhaps it isn't too hard to recognise them when you hear them.

And I suppose the adventure and earning potential helps, though it's hard enough to save, it's not cheap and going out for drinks wipes out a salary quickly (painful experience). However sports are plentiful and cheap, the ice hockey is good (if poorly presented). Though to be honest I'd rather go back to Canada if I were a few years younger, not Quebec - 3 months in Montreal were enough.

You didn't like Quebec? Was there anything in particular wrong with it, or just not your type of place?

I'm a little limited in where I can go by poor language skills, and a complete intolerance for heat (which rules out most of the southern hemisphere except New Zealand, Chile, and Patagonia!). I was thinking South America at some point, there were some Chileans in my Masters who were really good lads, and Spanish is supposed to be very easy to pick up if you already have French.

[mypost]

Russian's not too difficult to learn, I came to it from Croatian, though I learned that lingo handy enough. It's seen as difficult because of the cyrillic letters, though the language itself is okay. Forget grammar and just get on with it and the locals are good to go.

And I suppose the adventure and earning potential helps, though it's hard enough to save, it's not cheap and going out for drinks wipes out a salary quickly (painful experience). However sports are plentiful and cheap, the ice hockey is good (if poorly presented).

I can understand the alphabet, it's not too difficult, but actual vocabulary is a bit of a sore point tbh.

The place is a bit of an adventure alright, in many ways. Their Christmas is tomorrow. Can't see too many Paddies celebrating it, as it's so different from home.

[Spudulika]

this is the girl who, after 2 hours in Slovenia, and a fifty-word phrasebook, could tell me from a tannoy announcement that our train was delayed, and how late it would be.

I have fluent Croatian yet when Slovenes start yapping away I get lost. And it's bad to say this as I've been up there so often. So your gf is a keeper!


I'd heard bad things about the grammar alright, lots of cases, lots of declensions. It does seem relatively clear though, unlike French, so once you know plenty of words, perhaps it isn't too hard to recognise them when you hear them It's a case of getting a base vocab and working with it. My grammar wobbles every so often, or more often than not, but language is organic so you can always get away with it, unless the person you're talking with is a clown.



You didn't like Quebec? Was there anything in particular wrong with it, or just not your type of place? I can't say I don't like Quebec, it's very big and diverse, it's just that I think I had so many dodgy experiences there - Italian-Canadian mafia, ex-Yugo hoods, French-Arab racists, getting ripped off on a contract etc etc. But I liked some of it, I used to go watch the Expos play and it was so cheap for a seat behind home plate. While Montreal is a strange little city, though the locals I found genuinely nice - despite warnings to the contrary. I think it's just, well, a dump all for immigrants, non-english speakers I should add. Oh, but the jazz and theatre scene is good, not too many anglo's left there though.

I'm a little limited in where I can go by poor language skills, and a complete intolerance for heat (which rules out most of the southern hemisphere except New Zealand, Chile, and Patagonia!). I was thinking South America at some point, there were some Chileans in my Masters who were really good lads, and Spanish is supposed to be very easy to pick up if you already have French.

South America would be great, Argentina would be lovely, and if you have french then it's not a major stretch to get the hang of Spanish. NZ seems to be a good spot, we had a couple of Kiwi's working and playing with us, easy folks to get on with. Don't ever let poor language skills stop you, you'll make some sort of way. Actually, something a friend of mine told me (she works now in Malta) turn your lack of language to your advantage. In spots like Russia or Korea (so I've been told) it's an advantage.

[Spudulika]

I can understand the alphabet, it's not too difficult, but actual vocabulary is a bit of a sore point tbh.

The place is a bit of an adventure alright, in many ways. Their Christmas is tomorrow. Can't see too many Paddies celebrating it, as it's so different from home.

TV is full of Christmas here, imagine standing for 4 hours listening to someone praying - I did one Easter and never again. It's kind of mad for kids (mine love it, well, the little lad just things every day is great) - they get Christmas (ours), then New Years (the major holiday here) and then they get another Christmas (7th) and another New Years (14th). Hard on the budget though.

You know, it's odd with the alphabet - you'll understand what I mean. When I get home for a couple of days I'm completely bojjoxed. I'm reading p like r, H like N and can't switch my brain correctly - it led to a difficult moment in March at a Rovers match. I know what you mean with the vocab, however the only thing that keeps me alive is just trying to pick up 2-3 words a day, and even then it's a killer.

[peadar1987]

I have fluent Croatian yet when Slovenes start yapping away I get lost. And it's bad to say this as I've been up there so often. So your gf is a keeper!

She has a fantastic ear for languages, she's a bright girl anyway, but she moved from Holland to the UK when she was 11, and had to learn English from scratch, essentially by ear, I think that might have a lot to do with it.

My biggest problem with languages is the speed of processing and the accuracy of hearing you need to converse in them. I can read French at a pretty high level, and would be able to get the gist of, say, a piece on the Le Monde website, or a non-technical wikipedia article. As soon as it comes to trying to understand someone speaking at full speed, I can't distinguish many of the words, and even when I can, things are happening too quickly for me to actually figure out what they mean.

And then you have the gf, who managed to pick out "Ljubljana", the word for "fifteen", and the word for "late" from the rest, and not even have to think about what the whole thing meant, just intuitively knowing. It makes me very jealous!

It's a case of getting a base vocab and working with it. My grammar wobbles every so often, or more often than not, but language is organic so you can always get away with it, unless the person you're talking with is a clown.

It's always possible to get by in shops and the like with point and smile if you have a few basic words. I managed in Italy with French, and Germany with Dutch as well, if you speak slowly, use single words where possible, and don't try anything too complicated, people generally seem to get what you're trying to say (And to be fair, if you're in an ice cream shop, you shouldn't need perfect language skills for the person behind the counter you want to buy an ice cream!). It's such a huge step up from getting by to actually having a proper conversation though, diminishing returns and all that.

I can't say I don't like Quebec, it's very big and diverse, it's just that I think I had so many dodgy experiences there - Italian-Canadian mafia, ex-Yugo hoods, French-Arab racists, getting ripped off on a contract etc etc. But I liked some of it, I used to go watch the Expos play and it was so cheap for a seat behind home plate. While Montreal is a strange little city, though the locals I found genuinely nice - despite warnings to the contrary. I think it's just, well, a dump all for immigrants, non-english speakers I should add. Oh, but the jazz and theatre scene is good, not too many anglo's left there though.

That's interesting to know. I've always wanted to spend some time in Canada, and though Quebec would be less full of Irish and Brits than, say, Vancouver. (Not that I have anything against Irish or Brits, obviously, but if I've moved half way across the world, the last thing I want is to be surrounded by J1-ers. If I'm living in a different culture, I'd prefer to do it properly!)

South America would be great, Argentina would be lovely, and if you have french then it's not a major stretch to get the hang of Spanish. NZ seems to be a good spot, we had a couple of Kiwi's working and playing with us, easy folks to get on with. Don't ever let poor language skills stop you, you'll make some sort of way. Actually, something a friend of mine told me (she works now in Malta) turn your lack of language to your advantage. In spots like Russia or Korea (so I've been told) it's an advantage.

How so? To be honest, the language thing has put me off the idea of living in the Far East. I've heard nothing but nice things about the Koreans, but I've heard it is very difficult to adjust to Japan, they supposedly have a very negative attitude towards foreigners in general, and caucasians in particular (although we probably have a long way to go before we pass out the Chinese)

[osarusan]

but I've heard it is very difficult to adjust to Japan, they supposedly have a very negative attitude towards foreigners in general, and caucasians in particular.

This was absolutely not my experience. The Japanese people are very friendly and helpful, and very willing to forgive the many cultural mistakes foreigners will make.

[strangeirish]

Ah lads, you haven't experienced deciphering languages and cultural differences until you've lived in Florida! I've been here almost 26 years and still can't figure the feckers out...Y'all.

*Cue the cross-eyed, marbles in the mouth Banjo music*

[The Fly]

Ah lads, you haven't experienced deciphering languages and cultural differences until you've lived in Florida! I've been here almost 26 years and still can't figure the feckers out...Y'all.

Florida - America's enema bag.

[peadar1987]

This was absolutely not my experience. The Japanese people are very friendly and helpful, and very willing to forgive the many cultural mistakes foreigners will make.

I'll take your word for it, knowing the person I heard this from it's just as likely the Japanese didn't like him because he was a gob****e!

[Spudulika]

Peadar you'd probably like Montreal, I did, in fairness, enjoy the place, I think it was just trying to deal with the people I was working with that soured me. Also from what I saw (way back when) the city was still hungover from the most recent secession vote. Lots of big companies had pulled out of Quebec and when were were out in the boonies playing matches there were some small towns (like Chicoutimi, Riviere du loup, Frontenac, St. Georges) that gave that old Deliverance feel and everybody looked the same. Though Quebec City was outstanding in it's beauty.

Osarusan, I'll 2nd what you've said about the Japanese. We've had many players over in Japan (some complete twisters) but the locals were unfailingly polite. I'm going for the first time in late March.early April for a couple of weeks and looking forward to it.

[BonnieShels]

Florida - America's enema bag.

It's America's wang.

[MariborKev]

In a certain way I think it is hard for Dubs to leave.

In Ireland there is the huge drain to Dublin anyway, so if you have moved to there then moving somewhere else it isn't as bad. Plus, when you find that most of your friends are now scattered round the UK and further afield then you don't have the "quantum mass" of people you miss when you move away. You are back at Christmas, they are back at Christmas, that's what it's like.

I'd say I'll be on the emigration wagon by the summer anyway. Thankfully not through need, but through choice.

[Spudulika]

It depends on the Dub MK :-) Emigration is easier for everyone now as home is just a flight away. Plus I don't know if many people who leave now are figuring on never going home (to live). Last night I sat down for a few drinks with a pretty new crew here (Irish who've been in Moscow/Rostov at most 10 months). They don't figure on staying in Russia, first of all, and secondly the talk was about the Irish economy picking up in a few years and being able to go back. Now this can always change - marriage, job, kids etc - though the prevailing feeling amongst everyone was that we'd all be back home in a few years time.

[Macy]

It depends on the Dub MK :-) Emigration is easier for everyone now as home is just a flight away. Plus I don't know if many people who leave now are figuring on never going home (to live). Last night I sat down for a few drinks with a pretty new crew here (Irish who've been in Moscow/Rostov at most 10 months). They don't figure on staying in Russia, first of all, and secondly the talk was about the Irish economy picking up in a few years and being able to go back. Now this can always change - marriage, job, kids etc - though the prevailing feeling amongst everyone was that we'd all be back home in a few years time.

No one in the 50's or 80's waves (and the many in between) thought they were gone for good either...

Gotta say, a lot of the stories here read like choice rather than some form of necessity. Just to go back to spud's earlier post about leaving in the mid 90's - certainly by the late 90's, early 00's there were jobs. May not have been your ideal or what you wanted to do, but that's a different case to people in recessions who are desperate for any work, in my opinion.

[Spudulika]

No one in the 50's or 80's waves (and the many in between) thought they were gone for good either...

Gotta say, a lot of the stories here read like choice rather than some form of necessity. Just to go back to spud's earlier post about leaving in the mid 90's - certainly by the late 90's, early 00's there were jobs. May not have been your ideal or what you wanted to do, but that's a different case to people in recessions who are desperate for any work, in my opinion.

Agreed on the late-90's, I came back to work for a short while in '99 (archaeology) as there was a virtual boom. I actually met a future colleague who'd been in UCC and I spent about 3 months working in Waterford (on the by-pass). However what I found was that the traditional, or proper scientific form of archaeology was completely thrown aside and completely populated by charlatans or "businessmen". I don't know how many thousands of archaeological sites and finds were destroyed for "progress", Carrickmines is the most disgusting example of it, but it was constant. And then from 2000-2001 the wasters who were bringing in mad money for vanishing a fulacht fiadh as quickly as possible so that the diggers could get back to work were replaced with cheaper eastern European staff, having just about seen off or absorbed cheaper British staff. I smile when I think of one of the site directors landing in his jeep on a soaking wet October morning and delivering a new digger to us, who he'd met thumbing a lift the Cork side of Dungarvan. He lasted a week before the Gardai turned up at the hostel and he got a few years for drug dealing, aggravated assault and sexual assault. I went back to Germany the next week.

[gastric]

Lads, reading this shows you are a very educated lot! I left Ireland in 90 with a degree and after working in a crap job in Dublin, I spent 4 years in London and then I came to Australia and married an Australian. I really thought with the boom that the scourge of emigration was gone forever and now it is even worse than the 80s. I have found that you never really leave emotionally and I am proud to be Irish. Since I came to Oz, the advent of the internet, forums such as this, Setanta TV and Skpe have helped narrow the distance between here and home. I have two teenage daughters who are Australian and I know I will never live in Ireland again, but I am lucky that I can afford to go home every year. I feel good been able to communicate here my experience with others who are just now going through the pain of emigration. I find leaving my parents the hardest when I leave. I suppose the real point of my post is Peadar don't feel guilty about your education - you deserve it and your parents have probably paid tax their whole lives. Over the years, it gets easier but home will always be home. Communicating with other Irish people and getting a feel for their experiences and fears is really important in coming to terms with your situation. I hope this helps somewhat Peadar, and thank you for setting up this thread which I think is badly needed at this time.

[pineapple stu]

I really thought with the boom

Point of pedantry, but there was a discussion on propertypin.com about this phrase, and how it'd be far more accurate to describe the "boom" as the bubble. I'm going to try to adopt the phrase myself anyway.

[Spudulika]

PS, it's better than the "celtic tiger" - first of all, we're not celts, Ireland is not celtic, and tiger - an endangered species only found in european zoos. Given a choice between boom and celtic tiger, I'd go for the former. But bubble is probably more appropriate.

Gastric, you made me think alot of my own situation, I just hope to get back to Ireland someday, even if it means after retirement.

[Macy]

Point of pedantry, but there was a discussion on propertypin.com about this phrase, and how it'd be far more accurate to describe the "boom" as the bubble. I'm going to try to adopt the phrase myself anyway.

Some of it was a boom - mid 90's to early 00's. You can nearly correlate the start of the actual bubble to McCreevy's 01 budget. The solution to the rap on the knuckles from the EU for putting even more money into the economy was SSIA's, which then inflated the bubble further when they matured. Never ceases to amaze how he's still held up as some one who managed the economy...