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Thread: Reserve League A Possibility In 2012

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    Seasoned Pro Sam_Heggy's Avatar
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    Reserve League A Possibility In 2012

    It was mentioned at the Under 19's workshop on Wed night that there could be a Reserve league this season with an Under 17 league possibly being introduced too.

    That would leave U-17, U-19, Reserve and Senior sides on a national level.

    I think that would be great. This year alone for the Under 19's, we lost out on signing 6 players (all were agreed to sign for us when they turned 16) as they signed across the water. One of which is playing regular football for Norwich reserves already.

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    Now with extra sauce! Dodge's Avatar
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    Interestng. I'm all for all of this, but I wonder how the 'big' schoolboy clubs like Home Farm and Cherry Orchard will react.

    And as ever, the issue of costs will arise
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    International Prospect Lim till i die's Avatar
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    Be amazed if the 17s League happens.

    Clubs who should know better up in arms, as always, about the cost
    Davd, the winds blown, the winds blown, all of my dreams away.

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    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    I hope there is a reserve league. With a date in February for the completion of first division licences, I would hope clubs missing out could possibly be involved as well.
    A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
    Opportunity seems lost somewhere in between for new clubs/regions to become part of LoI family.

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    First Team Mr Maroon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legendz View Post
    I hope there is a reserve league. With a date in February for the completion of first division licences, I would hope clubs missing out could possibly be involved as well.
    Sounds suspiciously like the A Championship.

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    Seasoned Pro Sam_Heggy's Avatar
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    They mentioned reserve teams, nothing about other clubs.

    Otherwise we will have an Under 19 league where players are overage at 19, if they are not fully ready for 1st team, we have no football for them and end up losing them to junior football or bogball.
    The players in the 1st team squad but not playing regular are facing the prospect of around 3/4/5 games a year.

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    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Maroon View Post
    Sounds suspiciously like the A Championship.
    Sounds a bit like what they should be doing.

    Heggy like, if a reserve league is needed, and I would think it is for the reasons you've outlined, something I've been advocating myself, surely retaining the A Championship in a revamped form would be the best solution?

    The current uncertainty in the first division is not good for the integrity or image of the league. The premier and first divisions need to have a set structure. Only having 11 in the first division last year wasn't a good reflection on the league. Castlebar and Tullamore pulling out of the A Championship went un-noticed. That's what a intermediary reserve-first team league can be used for. If a club in the top two divisions are struggling, it'd in the league best interests to have a few clubs in an intermediary league, one of whom could gain promotion should a club fall. For a club that might fall, surely having an intermediary league to possibly fall into would be better than being gone altogether.
    A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
    Opportunity seems lost somewhere in between for new clubs/regions to become part of LoI family.

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    Seasoned Pro Sam_Heggy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legendz View Post
    The current uncertainty in the first division is not good for the integrity or image of the league. The premier and first divisions need to have a set structure. Only having 11 in the first division last year wasn't a good reflection on the league. Castlebar and Tullamore pulling out of the A Championship went un-noticed. That's what a intermediary reserve-first team league can be used for. If a club in the top two divisions are struggling, it'd in the league best interests to have a few clubs in an intermediary league, one of whom could gain promotion should a club fall. For a club that might fall, surely having an intermediary league to possibly fall into would be better than being gone altogether.
    In fairness to the FAI, it's the clubs that make the league set up a debate every season.
    We went through 10 seasons in which we made a profit in 9 of those including €70k profit in 2007. Since then we have been running up huge debts and in rapid decline. This past 6 weeks we've had to raise €48k just to survive (thankfully this has been achieved).
    Cork, Derry, Fingal, Kilkenny, Dublin City, etc all going bust in recent years leads to uncertainty. This year Galway United have now gone with GUST coming in along with 5 other sides applying for 1st Div licenses. This leads to 6 clubs uncertain whether or not they will obtain a license or not. If they don't comply with the criteria it's not the FAI's fault imo.
    In the Prem it's well documented that Dundalk and Bohs are in financial difficulty, will they get a Prem license? If not, will that mean Limerick go up?

    Either way, it's all part of the LOI merry go round and to be perfectly honest, it would be just plain weird if we had an off season with absolutely no drama.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy View Post
    In fairness to the FAI, it's the clubs that make the league set up a debate every season.
    We went through 10 seasons in which we made a profit in 9 of those including €70k profit in 2007. Since then we have been running up huge debts and in rapid decline. This past 6 weeks we've had to raise €48k just to survive (thankfully this has been achieved).
    Cork, Derry, Fingal, Kilkenny, Dublin City, etc all going bust in recent years leads to uncertainty. This year Galway United have now gone with GUST coming in along with 5 other sides applying for 1st Div licenses. This leads to 6 clubs uncertain whether or not they will obtain a license or not. If they don't comply with the criteria it's not the FAI's fault imo.
    In the Prem it's well documented that Dundalk and Bohs are in financial difficulty, will they get a Prem license? If not, will that mean Limerick go up?

    Either way, it's all part of the LOI merry go round and to be perfectly honest, it would be just plain weird if we had an off season with absolutely no drama.
    Why are licenses only awarded a few weeks before the season starts though? I think clubs should submit their license applications by the end of September, then the FAI can spend the month of October doing ground gradings and going through the accounts of clubs and stuff and award their licenses then. If they find fault with anything, clubs can have until the end of November to make the necessary changes to comply with the license conditions. Licenses can then be finalised the first week in December and clubs can plan properly for the upcoming season.

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    Seasoned Pro Sam_Heggy's Avatar
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    The season only finishes in late October, how can a club have their accounts ready for licensing in September?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy View Post
    The season only finishes in late October, how can a club have their accounts ready for licensing in September?
    The financial period in the accounts doesn't have to correspond to the season. Surely, at the end of September, teams would have a very good idea of weekly income, etc. and can include that in their budgets for the remainder of the season? All the FAI should be interested in is that the club's finances are in decent shape - i.e. they can finance their debts and they would have enough cash to complete the fixtures for the following season. Whether there's football going on at the point where they look at this should be irrelevant.

    Actually, I just had a look at the current timetable for the licensing procedure - here - the deadline for license applications to be submitted is 30 November, with an additional "Final salary cost protocol declaration" for the pervious season to be submitted by 21 December. If the first deadline is pulled back to, say, the end of September (and preliminary financial statements submitted), the FAI can award the licenses sometime in December, pending the financial review anyway.

    But surely, it's better for teams to know (or have a far better idea) which division they will play in - and how many other teams will be playing in that division - in December rather than February. That's two additional months of planning for the following season, surely that will benefit the relevant teams...?
    Last edited by FlapjackJoe; 28/12/2011 at 12:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy View Post
    In fairness to the FAI, it's the clubs that make the league set up a debate every season.
    I wouldn't blame the clubs completely. In Galway for example, if the FAI ever tested any of the figures given to them by Nick Leeson, the club would and should have been denied a licence years ago, never mind now.

    Licensing is all well and good, but when it isn't enforced on a basic level what's the point? You can point to bias if you like and I wouldn't blame you, but allowing Mervue United and Salthill Devon satisfy stadium requirements by submitting planning applications for projects they haven't a notion of undertaking is just as bad.

    Either you have rules and enforce them properly or just forget about it.

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    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    A month into the new season, it's still massively disappointing not to be involved. Has any talk surfaced of a reserve league? You'd imagine over the course of the season some teams would see benefit of a reserve side.
    A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
    Opportunity seems lost somewhere in between for new clubs/regions to become part of LoI family.

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    Sorry to say but all clubs voted against due to financial reasons, don't think we will have one its very disappointing
    the sub

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    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    It's very disappointing indeed, but you have to look at it from a clubs point of view, with the u-19 league, the ability to field another side would be very costly for teams.

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    International Prospect Lim till i die's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954 View Post
    the ability to field another side would be very costly for teams.
    It's all relative to be fair.

    The lack of a reserve league only serves to emphasise that the vast majority of clubs in this country continue to be ran by clueless, short term thinking, gombeen men.

    You could probably field a reserve team for 30-40k max.
    Davd, the winds blown, the winds blown, all of my dreams away.

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    The cost would be about 15k..and when the un19s finish where do they go back to junior football another waist of talent.. Cobh won the un 19s southern league conceded only 2 goals since Christmas the same team won un 16s national cup.. Most will hopefully play in the Elite section next season. But the club lost 9 Good players as they have no where to go and after next season it will be the same for the balance of the squad.. Kerry is in the same boat plus most of Limerick and all loi team complete waste of talent. What is the purpose of having any under age competitions if they don't progress
    the sub

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  22. #18
    Seasoned Pro Sam_Heggy's Avatar
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    100% agree thesub, we're in the same position, we've a fantastic group of players that we have had and trained for a while now and will lose up to 8 of the squad as they are overage for next season and are not ready for 1st team football.
    An A-League would have been perfect for us as we could have brought through the better players and prepared them for 1st team football.
    €15k would be the max expense for us too, well worth it considering the amount of players Harps got out of the A league in the past 3 or 4 seasons.

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    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
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    The resistance of LOI club to having more reserve/ underage teams is something that is consistently depressing.

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    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    Is there any workable solution to the problem? Take Harps, Sligo, Derry and Monaghan, any possibility of a regional league?
    A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
    Opportunity seems lost somewhere in between for new clubs/regions to become part of LoI family.

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