QuoteI thought it was a West Brom fan who made it up. Might be wrong though.
Who probably stole it from Pure Derry.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
I thought it was a West Brom fan who made it up. Might be wrong though.
It was, yeah.Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
But given I saw it on PD first and I would never give Breaking News, Joe, Balls or the Journal any credit so I had to make sure.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
James is a pea brain, insists at least one journalist.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-31390146.html
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
Oh for ****'s sake, an article about another article.
What do you think about the WBA fans reactions chaps?
http://boards.footymad.net/forum.php...9918336&page=1
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
This McClean thing has really driven me mad. Two thoughts:
a) He's an idiot. He shouldn't have done it. It's a facile 'protest' (if it could even be called that) and has pretty much no impact other than to bring his brain power once again into disrepute. If I was a West Brom fan, I'd be rightly furious.
b) Any variation of the argument that runs 'well if he hates Britain so much, why doesn't he just leave/why does he accept sterling wages?', as suggested by Ken Early et al, deserves to go in the bin. It's a complete nonsense.
This whole argument is a sad old infuriating state of affairs.
Context as ever, is important, and while I don't think McClean should've done it, the gesture is a curiously northern one (possibly north western one). People have mentioned Sammy Morrow already, who did the same before the FAI Cup final in 2008 (the same season McClean made his Derry debut).
Likewise some 'nationalist' players in the NI underage system (the system McClean emerged through) have done the same before internationals. Don't think these facts are coincidental.
Last edited by SwanVsDalton; 20/07/2015 at 10:56 PM.
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
McClean's reaction can also be seen in the light of the rise of Islamic extremism in UK, the parallel being they are both part of a large set of disaffected minorities - albeit only one now seen as a very real threat to security. My point isn't that McClean is not justified in his beliefs but it is very insensitive to be publicly disrespectful of the English anthem or flag at the same time as the UK government is, rightly in my opinion, fighting a tough battle against a far more serious strand of disaffection and its protagonists' failure to connect with their country of residence / upbringing.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 20/07/2015 at 9:18 PM.
I think that's more of a fault of the British Government rather than the disengaged migrants themselves, but that's another topic altogether.
You've got no fans.
Maybe James is really Mi6 and trying to throw said disaffected groups off....while spying on them from the pitch? Kind of like in the English Patient.
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
As Charleston is in a souther US State they should have played the confederate anthem.
Nice tune!
Thank God you responded to that before I saw it. You've saved me a suspension!
It's very much a northern thing, but obviously rooted in the heightened or loaded significance (and contentious nature) of various symbols to the communities in the north. Symbols represent the very essence of the (past-)conflicting or clashing identities. Whether he's right or wrong, I would imagine James felt that to exhibit deference to 'GSTQ' would be tantamount to an approval of a sentiment with which he is not comfortable or would be interpreted as a display of subservience to the ideology of unionism/loyalism. In this context, his reaction wasn't all that surprising. It's only natural that an Irish nationalist/republican would be instinctively reluctant to appear subservient to unionist/loyalist symbolism; in a general way, he was culturally responding or reacting, as an Irish nationalist/republican, to the perception of (him/his community) being imperiously told in recent history, "this is your flag/anthem, and you better revere it", and saying, "no it's not, so I'm going to opt out", a bit like what Paddy Barnes did at the Commonwealth Games, except not as vocally. Maybe that's indicative of a cultural or communal insecurity, or maybe it's just national pride and self-regard/respect; either way, I think it should be respected. What sort of society are we living in when people are being ordered to pay deference to particular symbols, or being asked to leave (in the mainstream media) for their alleged transgression?
Many may not agree with James' interpretation of such a spectacle (that being the playing of a national anthem and the displaying of a national flag), but different symbols have very different meanings for different people and, in the north, many symbols were once literally matters of life and death. No need to go into a full-on history lesson on how the actions of the British army in Derry and elsewhere might have coloured many inhabitants' pretty raw view of the British flag - or the "Butcher's Apron" as it was referred to, somewhat poetically I suppose, in darker days - but when you grow up seeing tattered Union flags flying from lamp-posts next to UVF flags and the like, it's difficult to erase such vivid and intimidating imagery from your mind. (Personally, I'm not sure I agree that observing such a spectacle would necessarily have to be interpreted as an expression of explicit or complete political approval of everything that might be historically associated with a flag, but I'm not in James' boots and I can see where he's coming from nevertheless.)
Players from nationalist backgrounds (not just those from the north-west; see Chris Baird from Rasharkin, Antrim and Niall McGinn from Dungannon below) have done the exact same thing when they've played for NI (at senior level) but there's been little fuss made over it, and that's how it should be:
Likewise for Sammy Morrow; as a Protestant from Limavady, he was under no duty whatsoever to turn around and face the tricolour in 2008. No doubt, doing so would have made him feel culturally uncomfortable too. He didn't start booing, insulting or gesturing in protest; he just opted out like James did. And fair enough, I say. By the way, TheBoss suggested that a few Derry players didn't turn around to face the tricolour that day but I'm pretty sure Morrow was the only one because he stood out like a sore thumb, unless my memory fails me. I don't recall there being that much outrage though.
I've seen the video from the WBA game and James clearly looked to be in an uncomfortable situation as he realised what was about to commence, so probably thought quickly and did what he has long seen players from nationalist backgrounds do; he disengaged and opted out of observance.
I think it's just another tiresome pseudo-controversy, to be honest, and there's a great piece on it here: http://surrealfootball.com/post/1245...pected-for-his
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 21/07/2015 at 8:35 AM.
It was inter club not international, was stupid to play national anthems.
On the subject of National Anthems, it seems Scotland does not have one, but Wales does, and then interestingly England does not have a national anthem,
God Save the Q is the British national anthem.
So a bit strange that really, you would think there would be different anthems for GB, England Wales Scotland and NI, it's odd
to use GSTQ for both England and GB or UK or whatever.
None of them have official anthems because they're not states, so GSTQ is all their anthem. Scotland have Flower of Scotland and Wales Bread of Heaven, and NI seem to use Danny Boy in some situations.
See Niall McGinn's comment here on the playing of 'GSTQ' for context: http://foot.ie/threads/147164-Eligib...=1#post1619124
Similar often happens when Arab Israelis line out for Israel. See Beram Kayal (number 7) below bowing his head and refraining from singing:
Right-wing commentators in Israel have often criticised the Arab members of the team for their refusal to participate.
Adem Ljacić, an ethnic Bosniak Muslim, was also suspended by the Serbian association for having not sung the Serbian anthem before a game. Siniša Mihajlović had a policy that Serbian players should sing the anthem at the time and so Ljacić didn't play for Serbia again until Mihajlović was replaced.
Just completely out of interest, why does Baird have his knees bent? If it were just a random stance of his it wouldn't have piqued my interest, but you can see McGinn's knees are bent somewhat also but just not as pronounced as Baird's. Or is it just completely coincidental?
I think McClean would have been best served just bowing his head like Baird and McGinn, don't you think? Almost turning his back on the flag comes across to me as ignorance, as opposed to deference. Maybe ignorance is too harsh a word but it's a more pronounced position than having just the head bowed.
Again, I'm filled with admiration for McClean. The outrage expressed by some is steeped in xenophobia, as far as I'm concerned and is oblivious to the fact that McClean isn't intentionally disrespecting England or his employers but that he is refusing to embrace a particular strand of English/British society (probably not the right word, culture? history?) and some of the messages this anthem carries.
What about this for a loaded verse:
O Lord our God arise
Scatter her enemies
And make them fall
Confound their politics
Frustrate their knavish tricks
On Thee our hopes we fix
God save us all
Maybe squatting out of awkwardness - it looks like textbook displacement - in the hope a hole in the ground will eat them up and save them from what must be a pretty excrutiating few minutes?
To be fair, he didn't quite turn his back on the flag. He returned to facing the main stand at a 45 degree angle from the flag, in line with how both teams had originally been standing.I think McClean would have been best served just bowing his head like Baird and McGinn, don't you think? Almost turning his back on the flag comes across to me as ignorance, as opposed to deference. Maybe ignorance is too harsh a word but it's a more pronounced position than having just the head bowed.
IMO, if Martin McGuinness and Ian Paisley can work together in a joint power agreement and if McGuinness can shake the Queen's hand and Prince Charles can shake McGuinness hand, then James McClean can stand and pretend to look interested during GSTQ for 3 mins.
If he wants people to respect his politics and views he should show respect back. He didn't just insult the Crown and the British Empire, he insulted West Bromwich Albion Football Club. WBA are a English club, who have English fans, staff and players. His clubs name, Albion, is ancient Greek for Britain. It was two fingers in their direction. He was representing WBA, an English club in America, their club. He should have known that.
His club should sent him to one of those FA education course. It would do him no harm to visit Warrington and go to the Tim Parry Foundation Centre in the town. He would learn that it wasn't just Catholics and Republicans that lost loved ones. The Parry family lost their two sons during an IRA attack. Rather that being twisted and let hate consume them, they did the opposite. They set up a Peace Fund in the hope of uniting communities so their sons deaths weren't in vain and something good and positive came out of it.
McClean is in last chance saloon. His career at Sunderland nose dived with some terrible displays. He went to Wigan and hardly set the world alight. Now he's got a great chance at a good club, with a loyal fan base under a top class manager. He might just have blown it already?!
Sunderland, Wigan and West Brom.
It's hardly like Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal are tripping over themselves to sign him!
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