QuoteRoy Keane spoke of his regret turning down a move to Real Madrid to play for the mighty Celtic. He also spoke of his regret not moving to Juventus and Bayern Munich earlier in his career.Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Our entire player pool is restricted to playing in the United Kingdom and America and we wonder why the national team is in the shape it's in.
Roy Keane spoke of his regret turning down a move to Real Madrid to play for the mighty Celtic. He also spoke of his regret not moving to Juventus and Bayern Munich earlier in his career.
you forgot Ireland!
I don't think he did in all fairness.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
I really don't mind this move. Its not a move to a PL team (which would be most desirable from an Irish fans perspective obviously) but looking at it from James' perspective, I can see why this looks attractive. Plus I think he will do very well over there (there are no players in the MLS that play like he does) and I think that his confidence will carry over into an Irish shirt.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
So, James decides to try something different (which, in fairness, isn't that much of a step down from the lower-Championship level he was playing at with Wigan), yet he's getting a hard time for the lack of Irish players on the continent... I don't get it. Which continental offers did James reject?
US internationals play intheMLS. He'll do well there and it'll do his confidence wonders. Best of luck to him if he agrees on a move.
Internet forum posters wouldn't be privy to the offers James is getting, but I would be extremely surprised if there weren't offers from continental teams playing at a much better standard to be completely honest.
If Darren O'Dea has offers from teams all over Europe, then I am sure James would have offers lining up that we aren't privy to. There are teams like Derby & Newcastle linked with him. He has the entire summer to - worst case scenario - sign for a promotion contending Championship team.
As I said, it's a lifestyle choice and a financial choice, but it is an embarrassing lack of professional ambition.
It is not a good league and the fact that one of our best players is going there at what should be his peak age is astounding.
That's all they are at the moment - links. there's very few major leagues in Europe with their season completed at the moment, and even less teams that start their summer transfer business before their league is completed. Celtic isn't going to happen because of his wages. He could wait around for the phone to ring with a call from Derby or Newcastle - who aren't going to call until their season is over anyway - or he can follow up on the interest from the States, which is what he's doing.
It's a lucrative move to an ever emerging league, he will be a big fish in the league and his earning potential is
huge in the US. I guarantee more players from English leagues will move over.
We are the SR the SRFC.......
Part time Finn Harps too :)
Who would be the best/highest profile foreign player in that league who is under the age of 30?
Sebastian Giovinco is probably the only one. And he has effectively ended his Intl. career with Italy, to put that into perspective.
So why are internet forum posters, completely ignorant of the facts, assuming it's appropriate or fair to criticise James for failing to consider continental offers he might never even have received in the first place?
I would be extremely surprised if he hasn't had/will receive offers from across Europe. I would say it is a formality. The reason there isn't a spread of Irish players across the continent isn't because of some embargo. It is because Irish players don't entertain the possibility.
We wouldn't even have known about teams from around Europe having offers on the table for O'Dea, were it not for O'Dea publicising it.
O'Dea himself has said it has done him the world of good and he would recommend it to his compatriots.
At the end of the day, it's a fantastic move for him and his wife on a personal level, but it's a job not a hobby.
His first priority should be to move to a strong English team and build on the reputation he has built back up again this season at Wigan. He has strong competition for a place in the Ireland team with McGeady, Brady & Pilkington. NY Red Bulls is a pure resting on laurels move.
It's not good for Ireland. Not good.
Why do you think it a "formality"? What are you basing this on exactly? Aren't you simply allowing your own frustrations and desires to colour what is no more than pure speculation? I don't even see why it would be reasonable to consider it likely that he's had offers from all over Europe.
Maybe my suspicion is mistaken, but I'd suggest the reason O'Dea publicised it was because the rarity of it made it noteworthy.
You say it's a job; indeed, it's their job, and a short-lasting one at that. You think footballers take decisions like transfers lightly? They have to weigh up possible risks and benefits just like any other working human being. It'll probably be a bit of a relief for James to get away from the anti-republican/poppy-related nonsense to which he's been subjected throughout his time in England too.
A few players have been named above - Roy, Hunt, Forde (is that it?) - but is there a known list of players (who've declined the opportunity) as long as the list who have had a stab at playing on the continent (Robbie, McGeady, O'Dea, Finnan, Harte...)?It is because Irish players don't entertain the possibility.
We don't know who Forde's offer came from. It could have been an offer to play back-up for a second-tier German team, for all we know. And Valenciennes are a Ligue 2/lower-half Ligue 1 side. I think we can certainly forgive Hunt for having held out for something more preferable then, even if he did end up regretting it in hindsight due to how things might have later transpired.
(James won't be married until next year, by the way.)
You're on this tangent about Forde again. He said he was wanted by a Bundesliga team and you're on about a hypothetical scenario about him being a #2 and/or at a 2nd Division team while grousing at me about hypothetical scenarios.
Hunt, too. Calling a Ligue 1 team a Ligue 2 team.
If Forde had to contend for the goalies gloves at a Bundesliga team so be it. He stayed at Millwall, endured another relegation battle, lost his place in the Ireland team and will be playing League One football next season. That's his lot.
Is that it? No, that's not it. I am sure Stephen Carr regrets not moving to the continent when he was linked with Barcelona instead of having his career peter out at Newcastle. Damien Duff, likewise.
McClean was voted fans' player of the year at Wigan. It would be remiss to let a fringe group of idiots drive him out of a country. I think a move to the MLS is something he should wait a few years for. It is not going to make him a better player.
Why do you call it a "tangent"? Forde is central to your narrative that Ireland players are consistently declining offers from continental sides out of fear and lack of ambition. Show me a quote where Forde stated he had an offer from a Bundesliga team. He said it was from a German team. Some headline writer might have made an assumption for all we know when (possibly mis)informing the public there was an offer from a Bundesliga side. I don't profess to know the nature of the offer at all; I'm simply emphasising the point that we are in no position to judge the offer because we have no idea as to its actual nature, besides Forde's exceptionally vague description.
Valenciennes are a Ligue 2 team presently. They might have been in Ligue 1 when they were interested in Hunt - I'm not sure - but they more-often-than-not feature as lower-half fodder when in Ligue 1, don't they? Which I simultaneously acknowledged in my description of them. Last time they finished above tenth in Ligue 1? They're certainly not a Ligue 1 powerhouse with pedigree anyway (certainly not recently), which is my general point. Ipswich, meanwhile, have recently been a club challenging for a place in the superior English Premier League. Do you think choosing a club like Valenciennes over, say, Ipswich should always be a no-brainer in the former's favour for an Irish player? I think it strange that you seem to consider choosing a club like Valenciennes a no-brainer.Hunt, too. Calling a Ligue 1 team a Ligue 2 team.
I'm looking for offers. Not vague links. Sure you could stick Gary Breen to your list too if you want to move the goalposts. 'Mind that time he was linked with Barca?...Is that it? No, that's not it. I am sure Stephen Carr regrets not moving to the continent when he was linked with Barcelona instead of having his career peter out at Newcastle. Damien Duff, likewise.
In all fairness, the standard of league and player is constantly rising over there.
Shaun Maloney is with Chicago Fire
Emmanuel Pogatez with Columbus Crew
Nigel Reo-Coker at Montreal Impact
David Villa at NYC FC
Frank Lampard to join NYC FC
SSL at Orlando
Kaka at Orlando
Benoit Cheyrou at Toronto
Stephen Caldwell at Toronto
Jozy Altidore at Toronto
Kevin Doyle at Colorado
DaMarcus Beasley at Houston
Robbie Keane at Galaxy
Liam Ridgewell at Portland
Clint Dempsey at Seattle
Obafemi Martins at Seattle
Robert Earnshaw at Vancouver
While not all under the age of 30, they're all fairly high profile in their own right. You'd never have made a list that size around 5 or 10 years ago playing in the US.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
Well I guess he avoids the poppy question.
Or does he?
People were calling a transfer to Celtic a dream move. Celtic are a massive club but the standard of the SPL is terrible. The MLS is a better and more competitive league and he's moving to one of the top sides. Plus with the way the game is growing over there it could become a top league one day.
So after all the judgemental ranting and raving you manage to produce one concrete example, concerning our only undeniably world class player of the last twenty years.
You keep sighting O'Dea as an example. Are you forgetting that O'Dea played for Toronto before heading to Ukraine. Maybe McClean's motives are fully ambition based, in the sense that a season or two in the MLS might actually give him more exposure than the depths of League One, which is where he is currently at, let's not forget.
As for this David Forde thing, the second tier of German football is just called 2.Bundesliga or the 2nd Bundesliga, so there's no obvious distinction like the Premier League and the Championship. Even if Forde actually said he got an offer from the Bundesliga (which he didn't) then I don't think it could necessarily be assumed he meant the top flight. As it is, he only said he got an offer from Germany anyway. I'm not assuming one way or the other by the way, but it's ridiculous to conclude that this offer was a step up. We just don't know.
Last edited by DeLorean; 14/05/2015 at 9:26 AM.
I would call being offered a better, longer-term deal at a French first division team and having the chance to play against Monaco, Marseille, Saint Etienne & Paris Saint-Germain more attractive than signing a short-term deal at Ipswich Town. Stephen inferred as much himself.Why do you call it a "tangent"? Forde is central to your narrative that Ireland players are consistently declining offers from continental sides out of fear and lack of ambition. Show me a quote where Forde stated he had an offer from a Bundesliga team. He said it was from a German team. Some headline writer might have made an assumption for all we know when (possibly mis)informing the public there was an offer from a Bundesliga side. I don't profess to know the nature of the offer at all; I'm simply emphasising the point that we are in no position to judge the offer because we have no idea as to its actual nature, besides Forde's exceptionally vague description.
Valenciennes are a Ligue 2 team presently. They might have been in Ligue 1 when they were interested in Hunt - I'm not sure - but they more-often-than-not feature as lower-half fodder when in Ligue 1, don't they? Which I simultaneously acknowledged in my description of them. Last time they finished above tenth in Ligue 1? They're certainly not a Ligue 1 powerhouse with pedigree anyway (certainly not recently), which is my general point. Ipswich, meanwhile, have recently been a club challenging for a place in the superior English Premier League. Do you think choosing a club like Valenciennes over, say, Ipswich should always be a no-brainer in the former's favour for an Irish player? I think it strange that you seem to consider choosing a club like Valenciennes a no-brainer.
I'm looking for offers. Not vague links. Sure you could stick Gary Breen to your list too if you want to move the goalposts. 'Mind that time he was linked with Barca?...
I'm sure David doesn't have any regrets about staying at relegation fodder Millwall and getting relegated, rather than testing himself in a new country, learning a new language, adapting to a new culture and playing in a first division, which I maintain is where the offer came from. No regrets about the way he has lost his place in the national team.
Did I mention Gary Breen?
And I am the purveyor of the straw man argument..
Last edited by TheOneWhoKnocks; 14/05/2015 at 11:52 PM.
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