James McClean M Wrexham b.1989

**SkStu** · 27/11/2012, 9:22 PM

Oh no, i knew. I just really, really know now.

**Charlie Darwin** · 27/11/2012, 9:36 PM

RIP James.

**harry crumb** · 27/11/2012, 10:01 PM

I thought we buried this guy months ago.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 27/11/2012, 10:28 PM

Some on here would like to.
For having the temerity to lose form or speaking his mind.

Savage crimes those.

**gastric** · 27/11/2012, 11:03 PM

Love his hard work and determination as a footballer. I would consider him a typical, good Irish footballer, but can't, but think, is his supposed loss of form related to the controversy surrounding him? I will probably be shot down for this, but anyhow, there may be some truth to it.

**SkStu** · 28/11/2012, 12:21 AM

I don't think so Gastric. I think he has struggled since the start of the season. Second season syndrome. That's why I said he should really try and avoid the controversy that follows him, keep his head down and just work hard on adding another dimension to his game. All joking aside about career being dead, he will need to evolve as a player to remain premiership relevant.

**geysir** · 28/11/2012, 7:51 AM

I can only offer an opinion based on actually watching his sub appearance last night, not rehashing a tired clich� based on reading a text report

I don't know exactly what it is that he offered the team last season, that he didn't offer last night.
Let me know.

**DannyInvincible** · 28/11/2012, 8:16 AM

Originally Posted by gastric

Love his hard work and determination as a footballer. I would consider him a typical, good Irish footballer, but can't, but think, is his supposed loss of form related to the controversy surrounding him? I will probably be shot down for this, but anyhow, there may be some truth to it.

Not sure how you work that out. There was plenty of controversy surrounding him before he signed for Sunderland due to him pulling out of the NI squad to face the Faroe Islands.

**SkStu** · 28/11/2012, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

I can only offer an opinion based on actually watching his sub appearance last night, not rehashing a tired clich� based on reading a text report

I don't know exactly what it is that he offered the team last season, that he didn't offer last night.
Let me know.

You really need to stop taking my posts so seriouly Geysir. You seem to want to take umbrage with everything i post! Posts 1699 to 1703 got the point i was making when i copied the BBC text.

With regards to "I don't know exactly what it is that he offered the team last season, that he didn't offer last night" - i think you've hit the nail on the head. Thats the problem. He needs to evolve past what he offered last season as teams now know how to play against him therefore he is not as effective as he was last season. The more he can keep them guessing about what he will do on and off the ball instead of being (something of) a one-trick pony, the better his career will be. Its not a criticism against him alone, it happens to a number of players. Some manage to push on and some dont. I sincerely hope he will be one of the ones that can.

**paul_oshea** · 28/11/2012, 3:56 PM

The thing is though, how can a player evolve in terms of skills over the age of say 13/14. You have it or you don't you cant just develop a new skill.

If you are a defender then there are plenty of things you can improve,but for people like Stephen Ward that doesn't seem possible. Seriously though, some players seem capable of it, like positional awareness, concentration etc, but for someone who plays in McCleans position, he can't just develop a new skill, the former are just attributes learned through experience, they aren't innate - although with some people they are.

**Charlie Darwin** · 28/11/2012, 4:20 PM

He doesn't lack skill, he lacks variety. And I don't know why you're bringing up Ward again - he suffers from the same thing, poor judgement. Ward is technically a better footballer than most in the Irish squad.

**paul_oshea** · 28/11/2012, 4:30 PM

I wasn't I was just keeping you all happy by mentioning ward wherever I can. I was joking it was tongue in cheek. But ya thats why he is down at lowly Wolves alright cos he is technically better than most of the players we have, especially those in the premiership. He has an ok touch if that's what you are trying to get at, nothing spectacular. And no he doesn't just suffer from poor judgement he has a whole host of defects.

What do you mean he lacks variety, should he run at 45 degree angles rather than running at 90 degree angles. He is a one trick pony(strong, fast, direct) with a decent touch. If that is skillful enough then he will have no problem. But I think Kevin Kilbane type players excelling in the premiership is a thing of the past. Its not just a case of varying his running, opposition players now know what he does and it exposes his limitations.

**SkStu** · 28/11/2012, 4:57 PM

I think Damien Duff is a good example of an Irish player that evolved over time as he needed to. He didnt acquire more skills (whatever that means), he just started doing different things with the ball and making different decisions.

For McClean, i never mentioned picking up more skill. I think Charlie did a very good job of articulating what i was getting at. It is variety he lacks. e.g. dont always go fast outside - try a give and go instead - or stop and pass inside. His game is currently very one dimensional. You are claiming that one dimension is enough if it is good enough. Not really - you will get found out and teams will figure out how to play you and will nullify you.

**paul_oshea** · 28/11/2012, 5:14 PM

Duffer was skillful enough to be able adapt though. He has the intelligence and the skill to adapt his game.

I wasn't saying that is enough, it was rhetorical, what I meant was exactly the opposite.

You can't acquire more skills, thats the point. Skills are innate, characteristics/attributes are learned.

**ifk101** · 28/11/2012, 5:19 PM

Kevin Kilbane would be a good example. When Kilbane broke onto the scene with Preston, he was very much a one trick pony in the same vein as McClean.

Sure McClean is going through a poor patch but so is his club so it's not necessarily an individual issue. No need for melodramatics.

**SkStu** · 28/11/2012, 5:42 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I wasn't saying that is enough, it was rhetorical, what I meant was exactly the opposite.

You have me really confused... i read the bit below as saying one trick is enough if it is skilful enough.

He is a one trick pony(strong, fast, direct) with a decent touch. If that is skillful enough then he will have no problem.

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

You can't acquire more skills, thats the point. Skills are innate, characteristics/attributes are learned.

Skills are learned. You can acquire more skills at any time in your career if you apply yourself enough although it probably gets harder as you get older or as the skills required become more complex. If you didnt acquire enough skillz you can compensate by learning to use other assets important to the game (physicality or tactical awareness and so on) or by using the skillz you do have at the right time or not all the time.

ifk - i am not being melodramatic at all. Im just saying he needs to develop his game more and play smarter in his difficult second season. His form is individual to him - i.e. you can play well in a poor team.

**Charlie Darwin** · 28/11/2012, 5:49 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I wasn't I was just keeping you all happy by mentioning ward wherever I can. I was joking it was tongue in cheek. But ya thats why he is down at lowly Wolves alright cos he is technically better than most of the players we have, especially those in the premiership. He has an ok touch if that's what you are trying to get at, nothing spectacular. And no he doesn't just suffer from poor judgement he has a whole host of defects.

What do you mean he lacks variety, should he run at 45 degree angles rather than running at 90 degree angles. He is a one trick pony(strong, fast, direct) with a decent touch. If that is skillful enough then he will have no problem. But I think Kevin Kilbane type players excelling in the premiership is a thing of the past. Its not just a case of varying his running, opposition players now know what he does and it exposes his limitations.

Ward is better on the ball than almost all of our players - that's obvious every time we play. He's not the smartest defender positionally, though that sort of suits Ireland's traditionally disorganised and last-ditch defending style.

By variety I mean he needs to come inside and outside, to keep defenders guessing, to take shots on as well as crossing, getting into the box more etc. As it is, he tends to always try and beat his man on the outside and swing in a cross - it's predictable, but nothing that can't be coached out of him.

**geysir** · 28/11/2012, 6:04 PM

Originally Posted by SkStu

You really need to stop taking my posts so seriouly Geysir.

I didn't and that's why I used a smiley.
Usually means things are taken with a grain of salt.

With regards to "I don't know exactly what it is that he offered the team last season, that he didn't offer last night" - i think you've hit the nail on the head. Thats the problem. He needs to evolve past what he offered last season as teams now know how to play against him therefore he is not as effective as he was last season. The more he can keep them guessing about what he will do on and off the ball instead of being (something of) a one-trick pony, the better his career will be. Its not a criticism against him alone, it happens to a number of players. Some manage to push on and some dont. I sincerely hope he will be one of the ones that can.

As I wrote, for those who actually witnessed his cameo performance last night, he managed to be as effective as he was last season. No doubt this poppy experience has made him stronger and more confident in his ability.

**paul_oshea** · 29/11/2012, 9:55 AM

Originally Posted by SkStu

You have me really confused... i read the bit below as saying one trick is enough if it is skilful enough.

Skills are learned. You can acquire more skills at any time in your career if you apply yourself enough although it probably gets harder as you get older or as the skills required become more complex. If you didnt acquire enough skillz you can compensate by learning to use other assets important to the game (physicality or tactical awareness and so on) or by using the skillz you do have at the right time or not all the time.

What do you mean "acquire more skills (whatever that means),", yet you go ahead and use it yourself further down. :Rolleyes: You acquire more skills, of course you do.

I think the confusion arises out of what I believe to be a "skill" in the footballing sense. Everything you described above that Mcclean can improve on, is an attribute of his game, a characteristic, in my head anyway, in footballing terms, gained through experience and analysing his game. A skill to me is something like duffer skinning a player, or knowing exactly what he will do before anyone else. Its not something learnt or acquired, its an innate ability.

**DannyInvincible** · 29/11/2012, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by ifk101

Kevin Kilbane would be a good example. When Kilbane broke onto the scene with Preston, he was very much a one trick pony in the same vein as McClean.

Sure McClean is going through a poor patch but so is his club so it's not necessarily an individual issue. No need for melodramatics.

Isn't Sessegnon (28) having a relatively poor season as well, but nobody's saying he's finished or heading down a cul-de-sac?