James McClean M Wrexham b.1989

[Charlie Darwin]

At its heart hes not wearing one because he doesnt like the British. I dont object to this but if he feels like that he should live somewhere else. This is not a personal thing, he wasnt walking around the streets. He was as far as I am aware the only premiership player yesterday who decided to do this (including Ashkan Dejagah from Iran). In conjunction with his previous statements its hard to avoid the idea that he just doesnt like Britain. Thats not an issue but its a bit rich to then work there.

He's not wearing him because he doesn't like the British Army or what it stands for. I'm sure he has as many or more British mates than any of us.

[horton]

Didn't Dara O'Briain get a lot of stick about not wearing the Poppy before he relented? I used to live in Manchester, and quite a few locals told me they were glad the IRA bombed the town, they got a brand new city centre because of it! Can't see what the fuss is about, everyone harps on about WW1+2, most of the money raised by the British Legion goes to fund the families of (ex/)service men and woman who got injured in Iraq/Afghanistan/wherever else the BA went that they weren't wanted. They died for "our" freedom of speech and opinion, which James will only get as long as it conforms to political correctness

[DannyInvincible]

While you'd commend someone taking a stand against this all-pervasive poppy onslaught in recent years.... the kid has invited a world of sectarian pain upon himself at a time when his career is at a critical point....

Does that make him responsible or negate the culpability of moronic bigots and these so-called poppy fascists who are set on vilifying and abusing him? If people have a problem with his identity, what's he to do? Stop being himself and submit to doing something he doesn't want to? He's a free man living within the law.

Post #1296 continues to apply...

http://foot.ie/threads/160177-James-...=1#post1639164

But he hasn't made any statement on the "issue" at all. If anything, wasn't it those who'd opted to wear a poppy-printed jersey, as opposed to the usual poppyless jerseys they wear every week, that were making the active statement?

Perhaps but do you think he knows it's to honour conscripted soldiers who had no choice in the matter and were sent to be slaughtered in vain to keep rich Englishmen happy? I really don't think he's the type who does nuance very well.

I'm not saying he was wrong to choose not to wear it, I just don't think he understands why.

But the poppy has different connotations for different people. It's status as a symbol of contention isn't confined to just Ireland. I'm sure James fully understands what the British army got up to in Derry; that's the meaning he attributes to it. And, so what then of the stance of the more refined, articulate and enlightened Martin O'Neill? Did he similarly misunderstand?

Yeah Im sure thats why he wasnt wearing it, he is clearly a keen student of modern history!

Look he doesnt have to wear one at home but hes playing in England, happy to take the money so he should adopt local practices.

By doing this he has made a very active specific point that he has an issue with the vast majority of the people in the country where he works. If this is his view he needs to move back to Ireland or to another country.

Ye wha'?! Failure to don a poppy now equates to harbouring antipathy towards the English people? What a load of absolute ********. My English girlfriend respects my non-wearing of the symbol. In fact, she doesn't even wear one herself!

What other "local practices" should James be obliged to adopt under this totalitarian English social contract of yours because he's "happy to take the money"? I suppose I'll have to do the same too...

[DannyInvincible]

At its heart hes not wearing one because he doesnt like the British. I dont object to this but if he feels like that he should live somewhere else.

Where'd you get the impression he doesn't like the British?

[paul_oshea]

He's not wearing him because he doesn't like the British Army or what it stands for. I'm sure he has as many or more British mates than any of us.

Of course he would he is from Northern Ireland.

[cavan_fan]

There is a huge difference between individual choice and being part of a team. Teams decide to make statements like this all the time, they wear black armbands and the whole team wears them. There are minutes silences. The point is that every other player from every other country managed to wear theirs. There is a difference between your personal view and representing your club. Sunderland decided they would do this, they are a public orgainsation representing the people of Sunderland, the vast majority of whom support wearing poppys.

I wouldnt have so much of an issue if he was English, but when you go to live in a foreign country you do so knowing you will have to adapt. It reminds me of British people going to live in Saudi and complaining they cant drink.

I agree this is based on McCleans quite understandable dislike of the British army, what I dont understand is why given that, did he decide to live in England, where there is a large (and growing) support for that organisation.

[paul_oshea]

I was going to comment about a connection between those industrial cities and working class areas who would have produced the majority of recruits for the British Army from centuries gone and until recent. The connection between those and soccer is fairly obvious. So I don't feel the need to make the point. But these same people wouldn't have a clue about Northern Ireland and I would wonder how many know what the original poppy symbolised across Europe, not just Britain. Anyway I heard today some General - btw i worked for a company whose former main man was General Sir Mike Jackson(the derry folk will know him well), I never wore the poppy nor did I feel I had to/should and if they did I would have done exactly as James had done, granted with far less reasoning or feeling - say how its a symbol of all those who gave their life for the freedom we all enjoy today, that they provided freedom and saved many lives not limited to the two Great wars. That was enough for me really, that's what it has come to symbolise over here - the British Army.

[DannyInvincible]

There is a huge difference between individual choice and being part of a team. Teams decide to make statements like this all the time, they wear black armbands and the whole team wears them. There are minutes silences. The point is that every other player from every other country managed to wear theirs. There is a difference between your personal view and representing your club. Sunderland decided they would do this, they are a public orgainsation representing the people of Sunderland, the vast majority of whom support wearing poppys.

But Sunderland made clear in a public statement that James had a personal choice.

It reminds me of British people going to live in Saudi and complaining they cant drink.

Well, no, because that's the law in Saudi Arabia. No law in the UK obliges anyone to wear a poppy.

I agree this is based on McCleans quite understandable dislike of the British army, what I dont understand is why given that, did he decide to live in England, where there is a large (and growing) support for that organisation.

Eh? He moved to England to earn a living. Why would it be of any concern to him that other people also living in England might hold positive sentiment for the British army? Why should that dictate his conduct?

[SkStu]

But he hasn't made any statement on the "issue" at all. If anything, wasn't it those who'd opted to wear a poppy-printed jersey, as opposed to the usual poppyless jerseys they wear every week, that were making the active statement?

No. In the case of McLean, being the only player in a team that is not wearing the poppy, he then becomes the one making the active statement. I dont give a sh!t about the poppy or whatever but I stand by my post, he seems to actively court controversy at every opportunity. Actually, he comes across as a complete pr!ck if I'm being honest.

[horton]

So he should follow suit if the rest of the team opt to do something? surely the point of the poppy is to wear it to show support for a particular cause. Wouldn't him wearing it when he doesn't agree with it kinda defeat the purpose of the thing in the first place?

[ArdeeBhoy]

At its heart hes not wearing one because he doesnt like the British. I dont object to this but if he feels like that he should live somewhere else.
In conjunction with his previous statements its hard to avoid the idea that he just doesnt like Britain. Thats not an issue but its a bit rich to then work there.

If you apply that rule of logic, to say everyone in the EU, you're talking a lot of people. Sorry, but that's just rubbish.

Also there is no 'large (and growing) support' for the British Army.

To be fair, not least in Britain itself.

[cavan_fan]

So let me give an example. Before the FAI cup final they play the national anthem. One of the teams has an English player who had a relative killed by the IRA. He decides not to stand for the anthem but goes to do some warm ups. What would the reaction be?

1 - He has a free choice and it is up to him. His reaction is understandable as the anthem signifies Irish nationalism which has caused him person pain.
2 - If he doesnt like the anthem he shouldnt play in Ireland?

McClean actively decided to offend a huge proportion of the population of the country in which he lives.

[DannyInvincible]

Anyway I heard today some General ... say how its a symbol of all those who gave their life for the freedom we all enjoy today, that they provided freedom and saved many lives not limited to the two Great wars.

It's odd to hear some speak of this and then condemn those who avail of such freedom in their decision not to wear a poppy.

[nigel-harps1954]

McClean actively decided to offend a huge proportion of the population of the country in which he lives.

And I'm pretty sure that's exactly what was running through his mind when he chose not to wear it.

"Today, for a bit of craic, I'm going to p*ss off half the UK where I live and work and am greatly exposed to the media".

Good job James.

[SkStu]

So he should follow suit if the rest of the team opt to do something?

yes..

In fact, that's exactly what it boils down to.

[DannyInvincible]

So let me give an example. Before the FAI cup final they play the national anthem. One of the teams has an English player who had a relative killed by the IRA. He decides not to stand for the anthem but goes to do some warm ups. What would the reaction be?

1 - He has a free choice and it is up to him. His reaction is understandable as the anthem signifies Irish nationalism which has caused him person pain.
2 - If he doesnt like the anthem he shouldnt play in Ireland?

McClean actively decided to offend a huge proportion of the population of the country in which he lives.

Funnily enough, Sammy Morrow stood out before the 2008 FAI Cup final as the only Derry player who opted not to face the tricolour during the anthem. Why should that be the business of anyone else?

No. In the case of McLean, being the only player in a team that is not wearing the poppy, he then becomes the one making the active statement. I dont give a sh!t about the poppy or whatever but I stand by my post, he seems to actively court controversy at every opportunity. Actually, he comes across as a complete pr!ck if I'm being honest.

Hmm, I don't agree. Sunderland opted to make a statement and gave their players the choice to conform if they wished. James didn't and wore the same jersey he does every other week. He opted out of making a statement. I thought you'd commend him for that!

And what of his manager's "statement"?

[SkStu]

I don't agree with your interpretation of his approach to the issue and I'd imagine that, deep down, you don't either.

[tricky_colour]

There are many problems with the poppy, I think when they sold off council housing to
private speculators they should have ditched the remembrance day lark, it's clear they don't remember anything, it's just a charade.
Even today they have some priority thing for soldiers or those who chose to work as slaves get priority in council
housing, but that misses the point in that they should provide housing for all who need it.
After all is it word fighting for a country that fails to provide housing for it's own people?

[Charlie Darwin]

I think the best way to honour the memory of soldiers past would be to stop voting in governments that will enthusiastically send future generations out to war. But that's just me

[ArdeeBhoy]

McClean actively decided to offend a huge proportion of the population of the country in which he lives.

The same huge proportion of the population who don't even follow soccer.
Let alone Sunderland or James McClean.
And who are blissfully unaware of both.

And even they were, wouldn't care anyway.