Shels v Sligo FAI Cup final - Lansdowne Road 6th Nov

**S.E.P.1990** · 08/11/2011, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by OneForTheFuture

Anywhere between 200 (if you listen to a Limerick fan) to 5000

We sold just over 4000 through the club, so around 5000 with other ticket sales.

**OneForTheFuture** · 08/11/2011, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by S.E.P.1990

We sold just over 4000 through the club, so around 5000 with other ticket sales.

I have heard the figures alright from Niall and Frank just highlighting the ballcocks you have to read here.

**dublinred** · 08/11/2011, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by born2bwild

I know, but the sheer incompetence of that refereeing defies credibility. How is it possible for Winter to have been so awful? It's not a matter of "believ[ing] it's a conspiracy" as you say. It's a question of not believing my eyes. I'm not looking for a conspiracy; I'm trying to make sense of what I saw and I am struggling.

Didn't Winter see Kelly standing yards off his line for those penalties? If he did see it, why did he choose not to apply the rules of the game? If he didn't see it what was he looking at and who decided that a blind man was suitable to be the referee of the FAI cup final?

I thought Monday Night Shams was pretty biased again last night as usual pathetic atempt by the presenter to apologise at the end of the discussions did anyone not see where Delaney was for our penalties , Winter was woeful on sunday as predicted in advance by most people on here . The standard of refs in this league drives me mad first tackle is usually a yellow card instead of a warning in comparison to other leagues , we as fans pay the refs wages surely we should have some say in how the games are being refereed.

**Dodge** · 08/11/2011, 1:46 PM

If the first tackle is a bookable offence, it should be a yellow. There's no 'quick word' in the laws.

they're the best refs in the country. And I say that as someone who watches junior and schoolboy football. THey all make basic errors.

Annoying as it is when it goes against you, all you can hope is that they're not biased

**redobit** · 08/11/2011, 5:13 PM

4 trophys played for this season and one ended up in each of the provinces. A LOI for sure.

**Cuyahoga** · 08/11/2011, 6:20 PM

Originally Posted by redobit

4 trophys played for this season and one ended up in each of the provinces. A LOI for sure.

5 trophies , you forgot the Setanta cup which went to the province of Leinster.

**Hairy Bowsie** · 09/11/2011, 9:10 AM

Originally Posted by Sean South

Ill give you your bite squire.
You involved in BD? No? Didn't think so. 4000 cards takes more then one lad. As for imagination each to their own but using old materials for a final not for me. Original? It's not as if any other fan group here has tried cards at that scale and pulled it off. The south stand was full of bandwagoners what would BD do in that stand?

And you think the 5000 that were Shels fans show up in Tolka every week? Idiot.

I'm sure the 4000 cards did take more than one lad but it could be done by one lad realistically. You're a pack of jokers and amateurs, stay in BD's shadow.

**BonnieShels** · 09/11/2011, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

If the first tackle is a bookable offence, it should be a yellow. There's no 'quick word' in the laws.

they're the best refs in the country. And I say that as someone who watches junior and schoolboy football. THey all make basic errors.

Annoying as it is when it goes against you, all you can hope is that they're not biased

Completely agree here. But there's no getting away from his shambolic display though.

The referee does a have discretion though and I think like a lot of people, Richie should hsve used some with the red card.

**Dodge** · 09/11/2011, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

The referee does a have discretion though and I think like a lot of people, Richie should hsve used some with the red card.

Why though?

If he's sure it as a dive, he should book him. No question at all.

**BonnieShels** · 09/11/2011, 11:20 AM

Why? Because common sense should always prevail.

It never does.

Would you agree say, that v Persie should have been sent off for kicking the ball away?

Technically the referee was correct in his application of the relevant rules but should he gave exercised some discretion in tgat the player had just been booked relatively recently?

No one is arguing with you over Winters application. The problem is that it was a mental decision to make so quickly.

Would you have sent off Clancy based on what you saw live?

**Sean South** · 09/11/2011, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Hairy Bowsie

And you think the 5000 that were Shels fans show up in Tolka every week? Idiot.

I'm sure the 4000 cards did take more than one lad but it could be done by one lad realistically. You're a pack of jokers and amateurs, stay in BD's shadow.

Settle pettle I'm not knocking BDs choreo it was good and all ready said their section was better through out the game but if in the south stand they would have faced the same issues as the Rovers lads. Having the smaller end is easier to control, the school end at Daler for the two semi finals this year and last is one example. That message banner could be painted by one person too same as setting up 4000 cards if you want to go down that route but we all know it's a group effort so no need for that rubbish. Looking forward to seeing BD next year.

**CSFShels** · 09/11/2011, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Why though?

If he's sure it as a dive, he should book him. No question at all.

Because he couldn't be sure, because it wasn't a dive.

**Dodge** · 09/11/2011, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Why? Because common sense should always prevail.

It never does.

I disagree strongly. Refs are there to decide if somethign is a foul or not. They can't be allowed decide whats 'best for the game' or any of that rubbish.

Would you agree say, that v Persie should have been sent off for kicking the ball away?

Technically the referee was correct in his application of the relevant rules but should he gave exercised some discretion in tgat the player had just been booked relatively recently?

yes he deserved to be sent off. Now you're saying the order in which fouls accur determines whether someone should be carded or not? So you'd have no issue if Van Persie was booked for kicking the ball away, and 20 minutes later was booked for a bad foul? Personally I just want players to be carded if the offence deserves one. IF that means having 6 players sent off, then so be it. I'd like to think people would soon stop picking up stupid cards for mouthing/diving/kicking the ball away

Would you have sent off Clancy based on what you saw live?

yes I thought it was a dive. If its a dive, its a card.

The ultimate example of a ref making decisions on 'common sense' and 'not wanting to ruin the game' was Howard Webb in the last World Cup final. Game was a shambles as he didn't want to send de Jong off too early. game was a disaster

Originally Posted by CSFShels

Because he couldn't be sure, because it wasn't a dive.

seperate argument. A ref can only give a free if he he's sure. So HE was sure.

What you or I think is immaterial

**De Town** · 09/11/2011, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by redobit

4 trophys played for this season and one ended up in each of the provinces. A LOI for sure.

Yep, and 3 of those 4 trophy winners have about 10 years of history between them. Great to see new, up and coming clubs doing well for themselves, eh?

**marinobohs** · 09/11/2011, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

I disagree strongly. Refs are there to decide if somethign is a foul or not. They can't be allowed decide whats 'best for the game' or any of that rubbish.

yes he deserved to be sent off. Now you're saying the order in which fouls accur determines whether someone should be carded or not? So you'd have no issue if Van Persie was booked for kicking the ball away, and 20 minutes later was booked for a bad foul? Personally I just want players to be carded if the offence deserves one. IF that means having 6 players sent off, then so be it. I'd like to think people would soon stop picking up stupid cards for mouthing/diving/kicking the ball away

yes I thought it was a dive. If its a dive, its a card.

The ultimate example of a ref making decisions on 'common sense' and 'not wanting to ruin the game' was Howard Webb in the last World Cup final. Game was a shambles as he didn't want to send de Jong off too early. game was a disaster

seperate argument. A ref can only give a free if he he's sure. So HE was sure.

What you or I think is immaterial

Dodge, no doubt the ref in the semi final at Richmond was sure he was right as well, does not make the decision any less wrong
I thought the second yellow on Sunday was harsh but was not surprised as Winters has been awful on any occasion I saw him this season (hence the signature below) and ,in my opinion, should not have got such a high profile game

.

The failure to see the keeper so far off his line for the pens (by both ref and assistant ref) was beyond a joke (unless refs now have flexibilty to ignore some rules and not others

)

**osarusan** · 09/11/2011, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by marinobohs

Dodge, no doubt the ref in the semi final at Richmond was sure he was right as well, does not make the decision any less wrong

That's not the point though. Dodge was responding to a post arguing that, as the referee's decision was (in his opinion) wrong, the referee could therefore never have been sure it was the right decision. That argument is illogical.

**Cuyahoga** · 09/11/2011, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by De Town

Yep, and 3 of those 4 trophy winners have about 10 years of history between them. Great to see new, up and coming clubs doing well for themselves, eh?

You keep thinking that, it might make you feel better about your self.

**S.E.P.1990** · 09/11/2011, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

I disagree strongly. Refs are there to decide if somethign is a foul or not. They can't be allowed decide whats 'best for the game' or any of that rubbish.

And yet, earlier on, you dismissed the Sligo keeper penalty infringment by saying that it happens most times. So one type of offence v another offence should be treated differently? But the ref hasnt got that leeway Dodge, as you have said. Surely the ref can't decide when to let these things go Dodge? Surely we should have had retaken penalties in this case? I'm a bit confused.......

**marinobohs** · 09/11/2011, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

That's not the point though. Dodge was responding to a post arguing that, as the referee's decision was (in his opinion) wrong, the referee could therefore never have been sure it was the right decision. That argument is illogical.

If Winters made the call (on second yellow) without thinking that he was right that is cheating - and I dont think anyone suggested that.
Doubt that anyone thinks Winters errors were anything more than incompetence, if that is the justification then fine.

Not a cheat, just incompetent

**Dodge** · 09/11/2011, 1:05 PM

Originally Posted by S.E.P.1990

And yet, earlier on, you dismissed the Sligo keeper penalty infringment by saying that it happens most times.

I didn't say that. I said that one posters claims that Winters was historically bad was rubbish, because a) the dive decision wasn't THAT bad, and b) most refs get the keeper off the line at penos thing wrong.

I didn't say Winters was right to allow the penos to stand.

So one type of offence v another offence should be treated differently?

Well somethings are bookable, and others aren't. A dive is bookable, but not every foul is a yellow card offence

But the ref hasnt got that leeway Dodge, as you have said. Surely the ref can't decide when to let these things go Dodge? Surely we should have had retaken penalties in this case? I'm a bit confused.......

I don't think I've been in any way ambiguos about this. Refs should always make the correct decision, regardless of their consequence. if that means booking a player for diving, or having a penalty re-taken 5 times, so be it