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Thread: FIFA and Non Sovereign States

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    Stats Man TheBoss's Avatar
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    FIFA and Non Sovereign States

    I read an article relating to Zanzibar's request to become a member of FIFA and FIFA rejected it based on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by FIFA
    Zanzibar has been denied access to membership card on the strongest ground of missing sovereignty as an independent state
    But if we look at the members of FIFA, we can see that non sovereign states are allowed to compete. This list comprises of territories that are the same as Zanzibar in that they govern themselves but are not sovereign.

    American Samoa
    Anguilla
    Aruba
    Cayman Islands
    Cook Island
    Curaçao
    Bermuda
    British Virgin Islands
    England
    Faroe Islands
    Guam
    Hong Kong
    Macau
    Montserrat
    New Caledonia
    Northern Ireland
    Palestine
    Puerto Rico
    Scotland
    Suriname
    Tahiti
    Turks and Caicos Islands
    US Virgin Islands
    Wales

    Why are they being hypocrites and not allowing Zanzibar to compete ?

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    This is covered fairly well in Steve Menary's book Outcasts. The gist of it is that Zanzibar isn't a country (which is fair enough) and - unlike many of the above - isn't so far away from its "parent" country that it can't participate in its league. So Guam counts because it's just too far away from the US to have club sides play in the US leagues. The likes of England and the Faroes count because they got in before the rules tightened in the mid-90s.

    If you let Zanaibar in, you'd have an awful lot of places (some fairly silly) trying to get in. There's a lot of money in being in FIFA.

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    It is still a debatable issue, like US Virgin Islands, they joined FIFA in 1998 (after rules changed I would assume), and it is not that far from the US mainland, it is a similar distance that Tanganyika and Zanzibar are from each other, if the rules were tightened, than surely the US Virgin Islands should have not been allowed to join.
    Last edited by TheBoss; 13/10/2011 at 12:44 AM.

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    Then, because of FIFA and individual confederation requirements, you also have sovereign states, such as Kosovo, Monaco and Tuvalu that are also prevented from becoming full association members. Menary regularly writes about the Viva World Cup in relation to this topic, some worthy candidates, such as Northern Cyprus, Kurdistan and Samiland (Lappland), others dodgy political propaganda vehicles, like the Northern League's Padania.

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    First Team Gather round's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    The likes of England and the Faroes count because they got in before the rules tightened in the mid-90s
    I think you might be understating England's contribution to World football just ever so slightly there, Stu

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    Hardly. It should be an Ugly K team or nothing. No more theme parks!

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gather round View Post
    I think you might be understating England's contribution to World football just ever so slightly there, Stu
    Their contribution to world football has nothing to do with anything. England isn't a country, but is allowed play at international level purely because it always has been allowed. Indeed, I think there's a separate rule written into FIFA somewhere specifically to note that England, Scotland, Wales and the NI are exceptions.

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    And wrongly so, as 'exceptions'.

    Though do feely especially sorry for Scots, being lumped in with the unionist-types. But partly of their own making.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    England isn't a country, but is allowed play at international level purely because it always has been allowed. Indeed, I think there's a separate rule written into FIFA somewhere specifically to note that England, Scotland, Wales and the NI are exceptions.
    Countries are not members of FIFA.

    Associations are.

    What FIFA "rule" are you referring to?
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    The only FIFA rule I know that pertains to the British and northern associations is to do with eligibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieShels View Post
    The only FIFA rule I know that pertains to the British and northern associations is to do with eligibility.
    There is no eligibility rule that pertains exclusively to the four British Associations.
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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not Brazil View Post
    Countries are not members of FIFA.

    Associations are.
    Not the case. National associations are members of FIFA. The Leinster Football Association isn't a member of FIFA as Leinster isn't a country. However, the FA is a member of FIFA despite England not being a country (and so despite the FA not being a national association) because of this -

    What FIFA "rule" are you referring to?
    Article 10 paragraph 5 of FIFA's statutes on admission states that -

    Each of the four British associations is recognised as a separate member of FIFA
    So there's a separate line inserted into the rules purely to sort out the UK situation.

    I don't really see why ye're getting so het up about this though. I'm not saying ye shouldn't be in FIFA or something. Just stating straightforward facts.
    Last edited by pineapple stu; 14/10/2011 at 6:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Not the case. National associations are members of FIFA. The Leinster Football Association isn't a member of FIFA as Leinster isn't a country. However, the FA is a member of FIFA despite England not being a country (and so despite the FA not being a national association) because of this -
    Montserrat and American Samoa aren't countries but are FIFA members. Guadeloupe and Reunion are in similar situations to those two yet are not and I do not believe had a choice. There are also disputed places like Chechnya and Tibet that have teams (not to mention Taipei and Macau who are FIFA members).
    Last edited by theworm2345; 15/10/2011 at 12:42 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by theworm2345 View Post
    Montserrat and American Samoa aren't countries but are FIFA members. Guadeloupe and Reunion are in similar situations to those two yet are not and I do not believe had a choice. There are also disputed places like Chechnya and Tibet that have teams (not to mention Taipei and Macau who are FIFA members).
    French dependents are complicated by the fact that they are "France" rather than independent provinces like say Suriname, Curacao etc.

    FIFA's rules for membership are as complicated as the rules of nationality and statehood are in the world. There's ever gonna be hard and fast rules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonnieShels View Post
    French dependents are complicated by the fact that they are "France" rather than independent provinces like say Suriname, Curacao etc.

    FIFA's rules for membership are as complicated as the rules of nationality and statehood are in the world. There's ever gonna be hard and fast rules.
    Suriname is independent, but yes you're right these "departments d'outre-mer" are an odd case as they use the Euro and their flag is le bleu blanc et rouge. Yet Tahiti and New Caledonia are FIFA members though...madness. As we all know with FIFA it usually comes down to money.

    As a side note I think Guadeloupe and Martinique like their statuses as it means they can get players with aspirations of playing for France and French footballers in international retirement to represent them.
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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theworm2345 View Post
    Montserrat and American Samoa aren't countries but are FIFA members. Guadeloupe and Reunion are in similar situations to those two yet are not and I do not believe had a choice. There are also disputed places like Chechnya and Tibet that have teams (not to mention Taipei and Macau who are FIFA members).
    The first couple are covered earlier in the thread; generally (it seems) if you're too far away from your parent country, you're granted an exception. Zanzibar is right beside the mainland, so there's no need for that to apply. I'm not saying it necessarily makes sense in every case, but that's the jist of FIFA's argument. There's a rake of countries looking to get into FIFA (Greenland, Gibraltar, Isle of Man, Jersey, etc, etc) - they have to draw the line somewhere.

    A FIFA team playing Tibet can expect a ban. A UEFA club hosting a Tibet game can expect a ban. Anyone can have a team; that doesn't mean they're recognised by FIFA.

    But for a better explanation than I've given, read the Steve Menary book linked above.

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    Seasoned Pro peadar1987's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    The first couple are covered earlier in the thread; generally (it seems) if you're too far away from your parent country, you're granted an exception. Zanzibar is right beside the mainland, so there's no need for that to apply. I'm not saying it necessarily makes sense in every case, but that's the jist of FIFA's argument. There's a rake of countries looking to get into FIFA (Greenland, Gibraltar, Isle of Man, Jersey, etc, etc) - they have to draw the line somewhere.

    A FIFA team playing Tibet can expect a ban. A UEFA club hosting a Tibet game can expect a ban. Anyone can have a team; that doesn't mean they're recognised by FIFA.

    But for a better explanation than I've given, read the Steve Menary book linked above.

    Really? There doesn't seem to be any issue with the Catalan and Basque sides playing exhibition games. FIFA mightn't recognise the caps awarded as official, but I wouldn't have thought there'd be any problem beyond that

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    Quote Originally Posted by theworm2345 View Post
    There are also disputed places like Chechnya and Tibet that have teams (not to mention Taipei and Macau who are FIFA members).
    Taipei is a totally different kettle of fish altogether. I don't think there should be any problem in them having their own team, though I imagine if they're drawn against China, they couldn't play the game.

    It is strange that Hong Kong and Macau both have their own teams, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfrank View Post
    Taipei is a totally different kettle of fish altogether. I don't think there should be any problem in them having their own team, though I imagine if they're drawn against China, they couldn't play the game.

    It is strange that Hong Kong and Macau both have their own teams, though.
    Not really. Hong Kong and Macau had teams long before they were subsumed back into the PRC in the late 90s. Even now they have a Special Administrative Region (SAR) status within the PRC.

    Taiwan/The Republic of China/Chinese Taipei etc. have other issues like becoming UN members' first. Which will never happen as long as the PRC are Permanent members' of the security council with a veto.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    This is covered fairly well in Steve Menary's book Outcasts .

    Great book that, highly recommend it. Interesting reading about how FIFA are shafting Gibralter due to being blackmailed by Spain, and how they continue to refuse Greenland despite them having exact same status as Faroe Islands

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