Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

[Dunners]

----------Westwood---------

---O'Shea---Dunne---Clark---
Coleman-------------McGeady

----McCarthy------Gibson----
----------Ireland----------

-------Long-----Stokes-------

[mark12345]

Gus Poyet anyone?

Would like to see Martin O'Neill get it but would be absolutely delighted if Poyet ended up in the seat. Good choice, I didn't even think of him.
Poyet is Uruguayan and Uruguay are now my role model team in international football. Population 3.5 million like us, football standard.........eh not like us. But if we have a team to aspire to it should be Uruguay. Anyone see their recent game against very highly fancied Colombia, whom they beat.

Last word on Trap. Hoolahan, Brady, Ireland, Reid, Stokes, Gibson was an awful lot of talent to leave on the bench (or far from the bench as the case was). I know the latter four all had their various mis steps with the manager, but when you have a team which is not made up of Ronaldo's and Messi's, as he readily admitted himself, then you have to go cap in hand to your creative players. He was nothing if not stubborn (Glen Whelan) was Trap. Had he lightened up a bit and call the other lads back it might have been a different story.

[jbyrne]

Ireland, Reid, Stokes, Gibson was an awful lot of talent to leave on the bench (or far from the bench as the case was)

Since stans time Ireland didnt want to play.
Reid is miles off international pace. He makes glen whelan look fast and agile.
Stokes was "too tired" to turn up a couple of years back, was subsequently injury prone and has only in the last few weeks hit any kind of form.
Gibson withdrew himself from the squad and never impressed for us.

it is incredible that these 4 are still being held up as players who would have turned our fortunes around.
Trap should have gone "cap in hand" to moody, disintrested players.... is this statement for real?

[Crosby87]

Yeah Andy scored twice for us in competitive matches, once vs Cyprus and once vs San Marino in a blowout. I think Steven Reid was always potentially more important than Andy Reid was.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Last word on Trap. Hoolahan, Brady, Ireland, Reid, Stokes, Gibson was an awful lot of talent to leave on the bench (or far from the bench as the case was). I know the latter four all had their various mis steps with the manager, but when you have a team which is not made up of Ronaldo's and Messi's, as he readily admitted himself, then you have to go cap in hand to your creative players. He was nothing if not stubborn (Glen Whelan) was Trap. Had he lightened up a bit and call the other lads back it might have been a different story.

Oversimplification maybe, but we really need to make the most of our resources.

And if that means reincorporating these latter 4, so be it.
The likes of McShane, Whelan, Sammon really aren't good enough, as were Ward & Kilbane before them. Even if some of them are good guys.

[geysir]

It should be in the contract of the new manager, Andy Reid already has shirt nr 16.
Who cares if he breaks the 5 second barrier for the 50m sprint, only once in a game.
.

[mark12345]

Since stans time Ireland didnt want to play.
Reid is miles off international pace. He makes glen whelan look fast and agile.
Stokes was "too tired" to turn up a couple of years back, was subsequently injury prone and has only in the last few weeks hit any kind of form.
Gibson withdrew himself from the squad and never impressed for us.

it is incredible that these 4 are still being held up as players who would have turned our fortunes around.
Trap should have gone "cap in hand" to moody, disintrested players.... is this statement for real?

Really trying to find the logic in your post. Can't for the life of me though.

Let's start at the beginning. Trap readily admitted that we are not a team of Ronaldo's and Messi's. Ok we got it Trap, everyone agrees. So then one would assume that he would go to his creative players. Yes, he had his run ins with them (and in at least three of the four cases Trap was not at fault). But over the passage of time when all he had left to call upon were those aforementioned creative players (ie no one else came along that was in any way better) then he had to go back to them. But because of his stubbornness he didn't.

Football is full of situations where managers didn't care for this lad or that lad's attitude but went back to pick him nevertheless, because he (the manager) had no other option. But Trap never crossed that bridge. Did he?
And regarding your assessment of the four players mentioned, Reid may be off the pace but he has more presence and skill about him than a wilderness of Glen Whelans. Stokes was too tired. That's correct. But there was a time when that should have been pushed aside. Like after the Euros because Stokes had had his punishment, so to speak. Ireland did want to return to play for us. He said it throughout Trap's reign and did you ask yourself before posting the above: if he didn't want to play for us then why did he come out the other day and say that he does want to play for us?

And Gibson got a real raw deal at the Euros. Didn't excuse the way he handled himself. He should have played in Poland. Again didn't excuse his behavior afterwards but Trap did have the chance to play him.

[mark12345]

Someone who sees a bit of sense

[paul_oshea]

Mark you live out in america how many Ireland games do you actually see/have seen?

I and a few others have pointed out traps mistakes in the past that we believe have cost us very dearly most notably this campaign when he was finally found out but I don't like this revisionist crap. Those 4 players were either very average/dome nothing and would have made feck all difference.Gibson had loads of chances and did nothing. Algeria was his only half decent game. Ireland had a few decent games but has done nothing in years.

By all means pick out traps faults and the reasons why we didn't qualify but don't throw out these nuggets as tho these 4 players were our messiahs.

[geysir]

Someone who sees a bit of sense

Mark you're seriously deluded, beyond saving I suspect, considering this statement of yours. SI has only said he would like to be contacted about playing, a negotiation of sorts, where God knows what might be discussed. The following words can only be described as purile.
"Ireland did want to return to play for us. He said it throughout Trap's reign and did you ask yourself before posting the above: if he didn't want to play for us then why did he come out the other day and say that he does want to play for us?"

[paul_oshea]

Not deluded too far from reality out in the states. Out of touch. I've seen it many times before.

[jbyrne]

Really trying to find the logic in your post. Can't for the life of me though.

Let's start at the beginning. Trap readily admitted that we are not a team of Ronaldo's and Messi's. Ok we got it Trap, everyone agrees. So then one would assume that he would go to his creative players. Yes, he had his run ins with them (and in at least three of the four cases Trap was not at fault). But over the passage of time when all he had left to call upon were those aforementioned creative players (ie no one else came along that was in any way better) then he had to go back to them. But because of his stubbornness he didn't.

Football is full of situations where managers didn't care for this lad or that lad's attitude but went back to pick him nevertheless, because he (the manager) had no other option. But Trap never crossed that bridge. Did he?
And regarding your assessment of the four players mentioned, Reid may be off the pace but he has more presence and skill about him than a wilderness of Glen Whelans. Stokes was too tired. That's correct. But there was a time when that should have been pushed aside. Like after the Euros because Stokes had had his punishment, so to speak. Ireland did want to return to play for us. He said it throughout Trap's reign and did you ask yourself before posting the above: if he didn't want to play for us then why did he come out the other day and say that he does want to play for us?

And Gibson got a real raw deal at the Euros. Didn't excuse the way he handled himself. He should have played in Poland. Again didn't excuse his behavior afterwards but Trap did have the chance to play him.

so players should be begged to have the privilage to play for their country? no thanks.

limited a player that he is, darren o'dea (for example) spent full days travelling back from ukraine / canada to sit on the bench for us while stokes was "too tired" to make it accross the Irish Sea.

the build up to many a match under trap saw Ireland spout off in some tabloid or other about how he didnt want to play. here's 191 pages of what Ireland thinks about playing for us.... http://foot.ie/threads/81705-Stephen...tephen+Ireland.

tell me one game that gibson actually played well for us?

the only one of the 4 you mention that can have any kind of gripe is andy reid but even then his form has been suspect for the last few years.

you conveniently forget that all of the players you mention have struggled to varying degress to get into their club sides. yet these players were to be our saviour??!!

[Junior]

Mark you're seriously deluded, beyond saving I suspect, considering this statement of yours. SI has only said he would like to be contacted about playing, a negotiation of sorts, where God knows what might be discussed. The following words can only be described as purile.
"Ireland did want to return to play for us. He said it throughout Trap's reign and did you ask yourself before posting the above: if he didn't want to play for us then why did he come out the other day and say that he does want to play for us?"

Mark12345, Hasnt Gibson just said the same thing? Has he wanted to play for us over the last 15 months?

Lets simplify this.

Reid. - Out of the squad, his own doing. Could have been asked back in to the squad after a period though a very marginal decision. Form was patchy at best - Essential to Squad? NO
Stokes - Out of the squad, his own doing with lame excuse for friendlies. Injured for most of last season. Has been in good form this season (5 or 6 games) and possibly tail end of last season. Deserving of a call up prior to now? Not really (I hope he is in the next one though).
Ireland - Jaysus. Asked numerous times to come back by Trap (texts, face to face meeting), little runt thinks he is God. Form non existent in last 12 months. Deserving of a Squad place? NO
Gibson - Asked to come back on a couple of occassions since Euros, said No. Confirmed in yesterdays interview he didnt want to play for Trap. End of Story.

[mark12345]

Mark12345, Hasnt Gibson just said the same thing? Has he wanted to play for us over the last 15 months?

Lets simplify this.

Reid. - Out of the squad, his own doing. Could have been asked back in to the squad after a period though a very marginal decision. Form was patchy at best - Essential to Squad? NO
Stokes - Out of the squad, his own doing with lame excuse for friendlies. Injured for most of last season. Has been in good form this season (5 or 6 games) and possibly tail end of last season. Deserving of a call up prior to now? Not really (I hope he is in the next one though).
Ireland - Jaysus. Asked numerous times to come back by Trap (texts, face to face meeting), little runt thinks he is God. Form non existent in last 12 months. Deserving of a Squad place? NO
Gibson - Asked to come back on a couple of occassions since Euros, said No. Confirmed in yesterdays interview he didnt want to play for Trap. End of Story.

Re the above:

Reid, we are talking Andy here? Correct? Anyway if that's your view fine. Not mine.
Stokes is / was worth a call up because we don't have strikers coming out our ears. Long admittedly is playing at a much higher level and deserves to be ahead of him. But when he underperforms and you turn to Sammon who isn't up to much then.......

Ireland - Rights or wrongs of his past decisions not relevant now. Form did dip but can still do a job for us.

Gibson was asked back a million times that's correct. But that's not what I said. I said Trap had the chance to play him in the first placed and didn't and lost him because of this.

Collectively, six players Ireland, Stokes, Gibson, A Reid, and latterly Brady and Hoolahan was an awful lot of talent to dismiss. My most humble opinion. Sorry if it p*** off a few on her.

[brine3]

Mark you live out in america how many Ireland games do you actually see/have seen?

Sly comment, that one.

By all means pick out traps faults and the reasons why we didn't qualify but don't throw out these nuggets as tho these 4 players were our messiahs.

It's not just those players. Getting Trap to change things is like turning an oil tanker. Too slow. We could have done with Wilson and Coleman at Euro 2012. Trap is very slow to bring players through. He refers to 27 years olds as young players for god's sake.

By the time Trap finally picked Long, Long may have been past his best form already.

He just kept picking the same players in the same formation for years on end. Any clown can do that. Basically, Trapattoni wasn't bothering his hole to do his job properly, despite having been paid a king's ransom. That's why it fell to bits and that's why he got the sack.

[jbyrne]

It's not just those players. Getting Trap to change things is like turning an oil tanker. Too slow. We could have done with Wilson and Coleman at Euro 2012. Trap is very slow to bring players through. He refers to 27 years olds as young players for god's sake.

By the time Trap finally picked Long, Long may have been past his best form already.

He just kept picking the same players in the same formation for years on end. Any clown can do that. Basically, Trapattoni wasn't bothering his hole to do his job properly, despite having been paid a king's ransom. That's why it fell to bits and that's why he got the sack.

are these the same players that performed so dreadfully over the last two critical qualifiers?
the more he introduced the players the fans and media wanted the more our results kept getting worse. long, wilson and mccarthy in particular had stinkers in both our recent qualifiers. the players have to take some of the blame at least. twice long got in behind sweden and twice he messed up badly. are you going to say that was under instruction from trap?

he stuck to the tried and tested as thats what got him success for over 4 years. reaching the wc play-off v france and euro qualification cant be conveniently ignored. especially considering were we were when he arrived.

as pointed out a few pages back he gave 37 players their first cap for Ireland. thats about 1 for every 2 games he was in charge

[Charlie Darwin]

By the time Trap finally picked Long, Long may have been past his best form already.

Which quite neatly captures the problem of picking players on temporary form, and it's the reason why Robbie Keane has seen off every pretender to his throne in nigh-on 15 years.

[ArdeeBhoy]

he gave 37 players their first cap for Ireland. thats about 1 for every 2 games he was in charge

Around 25-30 of which, we could have done without...

[osarusan]

the more he introduced the players the fans and media wanted the more our results kept getting worse.

Yeah, it's all our fault.

he stuck to the tried and tested as thats what got him success for over 4 years.

And he was still sticking to right until his last game in charge.

[jbyrne]

Yeah, it's all our fault.

obviously not but the players he was encouraged to bring in didnt cover themselves in glory the last couple of games. thats the point i was responding to

And he was still sticking to right until his last game in charge.

and thats why he's rightly gone