Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

[shakermaker1982]

Just seen this on twitter

@COYBIG: Trap: "In Ireland there is no league. Our players play in England. In Sweden & Austria they have league. This is different." #COYBIG

Asking for trouble?

[DannyInvincible]

Just seen this on twitter

@COYBIG: Trap: "In Ireland there is no league. Our players play in England. In Sweden & Austria they have league. This is different." #COYBIG

Asking for trouble?

Some responses: http://www.goal.com/en-ie/news/3942/...ful-trapattoni

The statement prompted responses from a number of League of Ireland players, including Limerick defender Stephen Folan, who branded Trapattoni "disrespectful".

"Rather disrespectful that [Trapattoni] hasn't acknowledged the league," Folan wrote on Twitter. "Regardless of the standard, how many [players] from the Ireland team have played in this league?"

St Patrick's Athletic defender Ian Bermingham was critical of the Italian and suggested that there were better players currently playing in Ireland's domestic league than those currently in Trapattoni's squad.

"Never mind better players on the bench, [there are] much better midfielders in our league than Paul Green," he wrote on Twitter.

Bermingham's St Pat's team mate Ger O'Brien said that Trapattoni did not know what domestically-based players offered.

"Nobody associated with our league should be offended by Trap. [He] has no idea what we can offer [and] doesn't realise [a quarter] of his squad played in [the League of Ireland]..."

The reaction echoes the thoughts of Derry City midfielder Patrick McEleney, who recently told Goal that Trapattoni would never look to the League of Ireland and doubted the Italian's desire to promote the league.

"I think Trapattoni will never look towards our league for senior international players," McEleney said. "You would have to be playing across the water [in Britain] for him to acknowledge you. As for promoting, I'm not sure he would do it."

League of Ireland sides have also beaten numerous Swedish opponents in European competition in recent years.

I'd like to think that the intent of Trap's statement has been somewhat lost in translation and that he's actually criticising the national and associational neglect of our league; so bad it is that you'd barely know the league existed.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Disgraceful.

[geysir]

League of Ireland sides have also beaten numerous Swedish opponents in European competition in recent years.

I'd like to think that the intent of Trap's statement has been somewhat lost in translation and that he's actually criticising the national and associational neglect of our league; so bad it is that you'd barely know the league existed.

Currently the LOI is one of the lowest standard leagues in Europe, no matter what oddball piece of a fact is offered in denial.

Trap is engaging in the art of deflection away from his prehistoric tactics as being our main culprit after failing to beat teams like Sweden and Austria. It can't be true that Trap has made a mistake or is less than brilliant, therefore there must be some other reason
It is true that the LOI is very weak, it would be beneficial if the league was stronger, as strong as the Austrian or Swedish leagues.

[Closed Account 2]

He phrased it very poorly but there is a semblance of a point. If he had said, "the difference is Sweden and Austria have clubs who have been in the CL group stage a few times rather than never and/or the Swedes and Austrians get into theUEFA / Europa group stages with more regularity" it would have been a simple statement of fact and no one could have argued with it. This year didn't Armenian, Estonian, Kazakh and Icelandic clubs do better or go further in Europe than LoI teams?

As for Bermingham, why doesn't he name names, if there are these LoI players who could walk into the national team (team not just bench as that was his statement)?

[ifk101]

Sweden had one domestic based player in their line-up against us, a player coming to the end of his career. It is more often the case the starting eleven is made up of foreign based players. It's pretty much irrelevant in this context if the Swedish league is stronger than the LOI because Swedes don't deem their domestic league strong enough to field international standard players. On Friday night's game itself, Sweden had one player with that little bit extra but we are as strong, arguably stronger in all other positions to the Swedes but watching the game itself you wouldn't think that. Its all well in good in talking about poor structures in the Irish game etc etc but this is deflecting from the fact that we actually have, at this very moment in time, a strong panel of players to pick from. It's time for somebody that can actually see this to come in and do the job.

[squareball]

I'm hoping that a few of the current players will come back and finish their careers in the LOI and earn their badges and start coaching here and this would help generate more interest in the league and Irish soccer. Trap is a joke of a manager and is an embarrassment to the game in this country. He barely knew any players outside the EPL until the FAI came under pressure to sack him.

[geysir]

Sweden had one domestic based player in their line-up against us, a player coming to the end of his career. It is more often the case the starting eleven is made up of foreign based players. It's pretty much irrelevant in this context if the Swedish league is stronger than the LOI because Swedes don't deem their domestic league strong enough to field international standard players. On Friday night's game itself, Sweden had one player with that little bit extra but we are as strong, arguably stronger in all other positions to the Swedes but watching the game itself you wouldn't think that. Its all well in good in talking about poor structures in the Irish game etc etc but this is deflecting from the fact that we actually have, at this very moment in time, a strong panel of players to pick from. It's time for somebody that can actually see this to come in and do the job.

I'd agree with much of that but I think it's worth mentioning (fwiw), that Sweden had 4 local league players in their squad, Austria had 8 in their recent squad.
In no way, is a weak LOI an excuse that Trap can use with a morsel of credibility.

[DannyInvincible]

Sweden had one domestic based player in their line-up against us, a player coming to the end of his career. It is more often the case the starting eleven is made up of foreign based players. It's pretty much irrelevant in this context if the Swedish league is stronger than the LOI because Swedes don't deem their domestic league strong enough to field international standard players.

Can't the vast bulk of players in the Swedish and Austrian squads thank Swedish and Austrian league clubs for their development though? Unless I'm mistaken, there's no shipping their players off to Germany or wherever at the age of 16.

[Stuttgart88]

I won't for a second defend Trap's management of this team in the last couple of years but we know his English is rubbish and his "no league" remark is not to be taken literally. If Trap was fluent in English he'd probably say that a lack of a fully professional league that can compete financially with even the 3rd and 4th tiers of English football is a problem for Ireland, as it makes them largely dependent on a foreign system to produce players of international standard.

If he had said that, few would have had any beef.

However, IFK has a point. These players are good enough to beat Sweden. We are still producing good players. Not European Cup winners like we often did before, but good enough to beat several second and third ranked European teams.

Trap has either no shame or no sense of context. Ireland regularly comes second in groups yet he feels he has worked some kind of miracle. He steadied the ship after Staunton and brought order where it was needed, but he hasn't built on that. In fact the order we initially benefitted from has long since disappeared and we are now every bit as lost as we were in the final days of Stan and even Kerr's reigns.

[Closed Account 2]

If you take Whelan as an example, at the moment he seems to be a bit of weak link in the team. He is, or perhaps once was a nominally defensive midfielder. If the manager wants to replace him with another DM, he has to hope there is a decent viable one playing at a decent standard in Europe/UK or he'll have to try and work a player from another position into the system or change the system entirely. The other option is to take a punt on a player from the LoI to fill the weakness. If the Austrian manager was in a similar situation he could see if there were any viable DMs at Austria Vienna, Rapid Vienna, RB Salzburg all of whom have better players and more European experience than LoI teams - his domestic option is less of a risk. The same is perhaps true of the Swedish manager, although I'm not that familiar with the good clubs there now, years ago it was AIK, Djurgaarten and Malmo.

[tricky_colour]

I recognise Keane and Paul McShane, but I haven't a clue who that is on the right.

That's a potential new recruit, his grandfather may be an Irish Wolfhound but they are awaiting the results of a DNA test.

[ifk101]

Can't the vast bulk of players in the Swedish and Austrian squads thank Swedish and Austrian league clubs for their development though? Unless I'm mistaken, there's no shipping their players off to Germany or wherever at the age of 16.

Yes to a point. Leaving Sweden at 16 isn't unheard of though. Sebastian Larsson went to Arsenal at 16. Most of the rest of the team lefted Sweden in their teens so what experience they have (if any) of playing in the Swedish league is relatively limited. Swedish club football can offer players a professional career which LOI football can't. But when push comes to shove Swedish kids want to play abroad as much as an Irish kid.

[geysir]

Yes to a point. Leaving Sweden at 16 isn't unheard of though. Sebastian Larsson went to Arsenal at 16. Most of the rest of the team lefted Sweden in their teens so what experience they have (if any) of playing in the Swedish league is relatively limited. Swedish club football can offer players a professional career which LOI football can't. But when push comes to shove Swedish kids want to play abroad as much as an Irish kid.

That part is nonsense, I have already taken the time to correct you on that point. The Swedish players on average spend many full seasons with a Swedish league club before departing, on average the age of departing is 21 or 22, but I will defer to Tricky's opinion on that matter.
Here is the list of the players in the Swedish squad that came to Dublin
and listed is the age they left the Swedish league team to go abroad.
Started = started the game
used sub = came on as a sub

Andreas Isaksson goalie 23 Started

Lustig 22 - to Norway Started
Jonas Olsson 25 used sub
Per Nilsson 25 Started
Martin Olsson 18 Started
Mikael Antonsson 23 Started
Pierre Bengtsson 21 to Denmark
Andreas Granqvist 22
Albin Ekdal 19 Started
Seb Larsson 16 Started
Anders Svensson 25 - returned to Swedish league age 29 Started
Kim Källström 22
Pontus Wernbloom 23 used sub
Alexander Kačaniklić 19 16 Started
Jimmy Durmaz 23
Erkan Zengin 24
Zlatan 20 Started
Johan Elmander 19 Started
Tobias Hysén 24 - back in Sweden age 25
Ola Toivonen 23

Still playing in Swedish league
Pontus Jansson 22
Adam Johansson 30 used sub

[ifk101]

I don't have the time to correct you but you can start off with Isaksson - he lefted to play with Juventus at 19. Plenty of other ages incorrect as well so google some more.

[geysir]

I don't have the time to correct you but you can start off with Isaksson - he lefted to play with Juventus at 19. Plenty of other ages incorrect as well so google some more.

There is nothing or hardly nothing to correct, the goalie left to go juve age 19 didn't make it, came back to Sweden and played 4 full seasons in Sweden before leaving age 23.
I think that counts as leaving sweden age 23

Edit
One correction
Alexander Kačaniklić left age 16 not 19

other info
Of the 2 players who left age 19
Johan Elmander had 2 full seasons in the Allsvenskan
Albin Ekdal had 24 games in the Allsvenskan over 2 seasons

Even if you wanted to nit pick over Zlatan's age of leaving, 19.75 and not 20,
he was playing with Malmo for 3 seasons before leaving.

[ifk101]

I've already taken time out of my day to correct you. Lose the self-righteous tone. Isaksson left Sweden at 19. You think wrong. Google some more and I'll response to your new findings when I have the time.

[ArdeeBhoy]

This is all irrelevant.
The players are just not good enough...

[geysir]

I've already taken time out of my day to correct you. Lose the self-righteous tone. Isaksson left Sweden at 19. You think wrong. Google some more and I'll response to your new findings when I have the time.

When a person uses a smiley it means they are not trying to be self righteous. There is nothing for me to lose.
I think you need to be more clear and concise with your claims about swedish players.
I did not make any claims in the first place, but I have made a very strong case to correct a perception that you offered.

At the very least, when you consider the best player Sweden has ever produced, Zlatan, played for Malmo for 3 seasons before leaving, there isn't a remote parallel with what happens to best of the Irish youth.
Even Sweden's other world class player, Henrik Larsson, played in Sweden until he was 22.

[ArdeeBhoy]

So what?
They are both world-class players who would have probably developed regardless...