QuoteOriginally Posted by Deckydee
posted about this in the other thread, it's hard to lend any credibility to the sun newspaper linking sun columnist Harry Redknapp to any position, available or not.
Agree with this although Jack needed to go when he did. Even the most successful management tenures become stale after a while. Not sure Jack was sacked anyway, was he?
Replacing Kerr with Stan was mind boggling. My biggest reget over that issue was not putting large amounts on stan when I got a good tip from a reliable source it would definately be him about three months before he was appointed. Just couldnt give it any credance when i was told!
posted about this in the other thread, it's hard to lend any credibility to the sun newspaper linking sun columnist Harry Redknapp to any position, available or not.
Don't think I've ever agreed more with a post on here. Good points all round.
Sorry if someone has suggested this already, but Don José Ramón Sandoval, miracle worker with Rayo Vallecano over the last couple of seasons, is available.
He has a track record of of moulding teams that are more than the sum of their parts and playing attractive football to boot. Great motivator although international management is obviously a different kettle of fish.
Communication could be a problem as I doubt he speaks English.
Greece 1 - 0 Germany
Socrates (89)
I think Kerr would have been lucky to have had his contract extended just based on merit.
Dull, listless performances when it counted. Obstinate selections and omissions (Dunne & Steven Reid were often overlooked). Failure to kill off games that were virtually won. Lack of conviction.
He worked a lot harder than Trap but was guilty of several similar errors and it seemed that he had lost the dressing room. Whether this was his fault or not, when that happens it's impossible to stay on. Kerr was brilliant in another role for the FAI but I don't think he did a particularly good job for the senior team.
I also think that once the meeja turn against you it's hard to stay on. It creates a poisonous negative attitude to the set-up and this affects the team. I know it's "trial by media" and it's not right, but it's how it is.
I think he was unlucky on occasion and it's a shame that his bridges have been burnt with the FAI. We need people like him at a senior level in our game.
He'd be an ideal guy to be in charge of all footballing operations in Ireland - development, league structures, joining the pyramid and ultimately being the guy that the senior team manager and all other team managers are accountable to.
The CEO should be in charge of admin, operations, finance and government / UEFA / FIFA relations. That's how I'd like to see it anyway.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 17/10/2012 at 11:40 AM.
I've yet to post properly on the speculation relating to Trap's future. To be honest, I'm generally bemused and just not sure what the solution is. It does appear that some sort of fix is needed though, because there does appear to be something wrong. We play very uninspiring football and don't appear to be going forward at all. We're leaking goals in a way we didn't earlier in Trap's tenure. We'll really know where we stand after we've played Sweden and Austria in a few months, but might it be too late by that point if things go pear-shaped?
I find myself disheartened and somewhat disillusioned, but not solely or specifically with Trap; the problem cuts much deeper than who's in charge of the senior team or the system to which the manager happens to adhere. You can chop and change managers all you like, but unless you have a proper developmental structure/pyramid in place - as has been mentioned in previous posts - you're not going to go far, no matter what system a manager wishes to employ. We've arrived on a plateau or hit a glass ceiling, if you will. Europe's elite sides have moved on a level and left us trailing. Changing our manager can't do anything about that.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 17/10/2012 at 12:30 PM.
this hits the nail on the head. we used to produce some top top players but have not since duffer and keane. until we start producing players of this quality then we are doomed to remain at the same level we are at at best. since i started supporting Ireland 30 years ago we have always had one or two excellent players in every team who were big names in the league they played in. we have nothing remotely similar now
no the problem is nowadays its much harder to break into a first team in England with all the technically gifted overseas players in England. we will always produce good enough players, getting them 1st team football at the highest level is getting harder and harder.
Were Duffer and Keane strictly products of an Irish footballing structure though or did we just get lucky, if you will (one or two gems will always pop up every once in a while), with English clubs doing the rest of the work for us? Feeding off the scraps of English football academies and over-relying on FIFA's eligibility rules in securing the allegiance of players for whom playing for Ireland is a secondary option is not an ideal way to continue "producing" talent.
Ask yourself if any clubs in Ireland benefited from Keane's club transfers.
My guess is also that we have produced a few players with enough ability and technical skill by age 15 over the last 10 years or so but they haven't been able to get the leg up they need at a big club because their scouting network and academies are now genuinely global. Without this break, a lot of promise can go unfulfilled. I don't fully buy into the theory that if you have the talent you'll find your level. I think a more accurate proposition is that if you have the talent, the support network, the dedication and the right platform you'll find your best level, not to mention needing a bit of luck.
I don't think Ireland has found an answer to this problem. Even in the case of Doyle and Long we were lucky they went to a progressive club.
Of course it could simply be that the big clubs look at our 14 year-olds and think they're not good enough. Other things being equal you'd probably pick an Irish kid over a south american kid simply because it's less of an acclimatisation risk.
The Airticity League has had an OK track record in being a stepping-stone league in recent years, but I think it needs work to make it better.
Crumlin got at least one solidarity payment in respect of Keane's transfers.
I've often felt that we're de facto part of the British pyramid system, but without the financial solidarity mechanisms that transfer income downstream.
But transfer fees between GB and Ireland are lower than transfer fees intra-GB (or intra-England anyway).
both keane and duffs schoolboy clubs benefited financially from their transfers over the years
truth in this ok. but surely players we produced before foreign imports really took over the EPL like mcgrath, roy keane and others would get into a top 4 EPL team even in todays world?
Don't underestimate the murky world of player agents and bungs. Getting kids into the EPL and other leagues is a filthy business with all kinds of spivs and crooks involved.
I would watch quite alot of schoolboy football. I would say that the talent we are producing is to a reasonably decent standard (although much poorer than it was during the golden era of Kerr). Clubs like St Kevin's and Crumlin are a breath of fresh air. However, it is sad that the standard of some clubs like Home Farm has greatly diminished.
A major concern that I would have would be that our youths play in big goals with 11 vs 11. It is totally baffling that this has not been addressed. In the past, we produced a very consistent flow of technically brilliant players, who played in similar situations. You could say what has changed? Why aren't we producing a Giles, a Whelan or Brady anymore? In my opinion, the answer is that street football is now practically non-existent. Kids learned the type of tougness, instinctiveness and skill that often cannot be taught in academies from a young age. However, at least in the continental countries, they teach the kids properly and develop a skills set with them that hones similiar skills to street football, even if street football is becoming less common in Germany or Spain these days also.
To answer the question in the original post, I'd replace him with somebody who is willing to fulfill his obligations properly.
As I see it, any national team manager's role is to ensure that he extracts the absolute maximum from the resources available to him and that the tactics selected for each game are those most likely to bring about a positive result.
In the first case, I don't think Trapattoni has done enough experimentation with different players, and virtually no experimentation at all with different systems, in order to determine whether the defensive system we play is actually the most effective system with the resources available to us. The tactics adopted after the Stan fiasco were right for the period of stabilisation and recovery, but they haven't changed much if at all.
It's one thing to adopt a defensive approach in 2008, but there hasn't been any real attempt by Trapattoni since then to experiment with a more attacking approach or to develop a system which places greater emphasis on keeping the ball. It may be the case that the system we use now is the most effective available to us, but I would say that, because of the lack of experimentation, we really don't know if that is the case, but after 4 years in the job, there should be very little doubt as to what our most effective system is. Not enough consideration, in my opinion, has been given to players who have come through in the mean time, and their potential value to the side. That isn't good enough.
Secondly, I don't think that enough attention has been paid to developing tactics for each game and each opponent. We have one style and one style only, and we play that way whether we're away to the top teams or at home to the crap teams. Trap admitted during the Euros that he had no plan B - that should be absolutely unacceptable at Euro finals level. I don't know how much preparation Trap puts into each game, but it is very frustrating to hear him say that he lies awake at night thinking about how he can improve the Irish team, and yet the conclusion he come to virtually every time is the same old plan that sees us give up possession incredibly easily and use the ball woefully when we have it. I think he could do a lot more to prepare the team in terms of who the opponents are, and what their strengths and weaknesses are.
Having said all that, even though I thought he should have gone after the Euros, I don't think that the Germany result is cause for sacking hime. If we'd only been comfortably outplayed and lost 3-0, we'd be in much the same position as we are now, but without the kneejerk reactions. He deserves until after the first games versus Sweden and Austria.
Last edited by osarusan; 17/10/2012 at 3:05 PM.
I wouldn't trust Harry one bit. The first time a team like Liverpool comes calling looking for a manager he'd be off.
"Jacques Santini...will be greeted in every dugout of the country by "one-nil, one-nil" - Clive Tyldsley, 89th minute of France-England June 13, 2004.
"Ooooohhhh Nooooooo" Bobby Robson 91st minute.
I like the points Osarusan expressed but do you really expect Trap to alter his attitude to our players and his tactics by the time we meet Sweden and Austria?
I thought if Trap had put his mind to changing things after the Euros (as he sorta said he would or could), he would apply himself doggedly to the task, 100% sincerely. Not that we would be be a pass or die team but at least a work in progress.
Somebody remarked somewhere that Kazakhstan (after getting beaten by Austria) are not as good as we thought they were, but I say wait until they meet us in Dublin, we will make them look very good.
I use to think that it must be that our players were not technically competent but now I know that's a load of bollíx. Not that they are brilliant ball players but with a decent intl coach they have enough ability to play football and achieve results. Intl football has changed a lot in the last 6 years, but that change did not happen 6 years ago and stop changing, it has continued to change and changed a lot since since Trap took over.
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