Trapattoni - who would you replace him with?

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

No. He didn't withdraw, he was told he could leave because he wasn't needed. He didn't put club over country - his manager asked for him to be returned and it was granted.

Have fun splitting hairs. He was named in the 29. Medical teams decided that he could do with the international break off to continue treatment. Manager says fine we have plenty of cover. Plays for West Ham the next day.

BTW I'm not having a go at Joey. I'm fine with him managing his serious injuries. But it is clearly a situation of club first.

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

No. He didn't withdraw, he was told he could leave because he wasn't needed. He didn't put club over country - his manager asked for him to be returned and it was granted.

Besides, I don't think it would be fair on Joey O'Brien to imply he was unprofessional or uncommitted as a result of a desire to manage a long-term injury problem that has kept him out of the game for so long and nearly ended his career. He's lucky he's still playing any football at all. Naturally, he'd like to prolong his playing career and livelihood as best he can; that doesn't necessarily equate to putting club over country either. Very harsh to try and fault the lad for that.

Originally Posted by Irwin3

- Your whataboutery is your claiming that I whataboutered when my post was but a reflection of your post from the opposite side.

Oh no...

Originally Posted by Irwin3

- I give up. It's clear as day what you said and how I responded.

Oh dear...

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

No. He didn't withdraw, he was told he could leave because he wasn't needed. He didn't put club over country - his manager asked for him to be returned and it was granted.

Oh thank goodness. Sorry CD, you're tagging me out...*hops in taxi*

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Oh no...



Oh dear...



Oh thank goodness. Sorry CD, you're tagging me out...*hops in taxi*

What a sad little man you are.

And here's the FAI statment Charlie.

Clarification on Joey O’Brien: Our medical teams were speaking prior to Joey’s withdrawal from the Irish squad. A decision was reached based on Joey’s serious knee injury sustained two years ago, and he requires treatment during the international window next week after a patellar tendon flare up. The manager has given his blessing to this as we have sufficient cover on this occasion. He may feature for his club tomorrow.

But no, he didn't withdraw...

Originally Posted by Irwin3

What a sad little man you are.

Just bantering, would rather take the sting out of this. After all I could tee off on you seemingly not reading what I wrote, but also having the discourtesy to misrepresent it (repeatedly) even though I went to pained lengths to spell it out.

But I'm just looking to get this thread back on track so everyone else can go back to talking Joey O'Brien or Trap's successor. So that's it. My money's on a Moyes/Fergie dream-team. Irwin3, you know what I'm taking about...

Originally Posted by Irwin3

And here's the FAI statment Charlie.



But no, he didn't withdraw...

If you'll bother to read the rest of the statement you've posted, you'll see that a decision was made by the management which O'Brien clearly agreed with. Are you seriously implying O'Brien put his club over his country?

Martin O'Neill has stated to Clive Woodward on 5Live that nobody has yet contacted him in relation to replacing Trap:



Well, nobody from the "Irish FA" anyway. Maybe he's just being coy and someone from the FAI has gotten in touch...

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Just bantering, would rather take the sting out of this. After all I could tee off on you seemingly not reading what I wrote, but also having the discourtesy to misrepresent it (repeatedly) even though I went to pained lengths to spell it out.

But I'm just looking to get this thread back on track so everyone else can go back to talking Joey O'Brien or Trap's successor. So that's it. My money's on a Moyes/Fergie dream-team. Irwin3, you know what I'm taking about...

You can't let it go. Nowhere have I misrepresented what you said. I explained it earlier with the parentheses.

You were saying that people thought he was ****e because of his performances but that by the same token that these performances helped him to get a move.

This despite Gibson's continued selection being held up by a section of support/media as an example of Trap's muppetry.

Moyes had to weigh it up carefully - you really don't think the consistent seal-of-approval from an international manager didn't feed into that?

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

If you'll bother to read the rest of the statement you've posted, you'll see that a decision was made by the management which O'Brien clearly agreed with. Are you seriously implying O'Brien put his club over his country?

Keep digging. The statement is in black and white. It agrees with my summation above. The medical teams made the decision and the manager gave his blessing since we had sufficient cover. It's very simple.

I'm not implying it, I've already stated it above. With his injury record, the fact that he has to protect his livelihood plus the fact that he isn't a starter, it was agreed by all parties that Joey could choose to withdraw from the squad, play for West Ham and receive his treatment during the break.

Trap's replacement may not have as tough a job qualifying for Euro 2016 as I'd feared. Greenscene have just published this seeding predictions list: http://greenscene.me/2013/09/euro-20...g-predictions/

It potentially sees us as the highest ranked team in the third pot based on World Cup 2010 results (weighted at 20 per cent of the ranking points total), Euro 2012 results (weighted at 40 per cent) and World Cup 2014 results (also weighted at 40 per cent). For some reason, I'd thought our current FIFA ranking within UEFA would play a more significant role in dictating our seeding. If our seeding was dependent on that, we'd be in pot four.

Originally Posted by Irwin3

Keep digging. The statement is in black and white. It agrees with my summation above. The medical teams made the decision and the manager gave his blessing since we had sufficient cover. It's very simple.

I'm not implying it, I've already stated it above. With his injury record, the fact that he has to protect his livelihood plus the fact that he isn't a starter, it was agreed by all parties that Joey could choose to withdraw from the squad, play for West Ham and receive his treatment during the break.

Or... he was fit enough to play for his club, like most other players in the squad did that weekend, and the management decided that the following week would be better spent resting than flying around Europe to sit on the bench? That's not putting club before country - that's acknowledging that not everybody can play that much football in such a short time when recovering from an injury.

Originally Posted by Irwin3

I'm not implying it, I've already stated it above. With his injury record, the fact that he has to protect his livelihood plus the fact that he isn't a starter, it was agreed by all parties that Joey could choose to withdraw from the squad, play for West Ham and receive his treatment during the break.

But is that to lack commitment in the same way it might be said that Gibson's commitment has been suspect? Isn't that what you were implying?

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Or... he was fit enough to play for his club, like most other players in the squad did that weekend, and the management decided that the following week would be better spent resting than flying around Europe to sit on the bench? That's not putting club before country - that's acknowledging that not everybody can play that much football in such a short time when recovering from an injury.

We're singing from the same hymn sheet except I define it as club over country. He doesn't really have a choice due to the limits of his body and the fact that he has to earn a livelihood, but to me, that is exactly what it is.

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

But is that to lack commitment in the same way it might be said that Gibson's commitment has been suspect? Isn't that what you were implying?

Yeah, I gave a variety of examples of other players in different circumstances making choices to withdraw from selection.

Originally Posted by Irwin3

We're singing from the same hymn sheet except I define it as club over country. He doesn't really have a choice due to the limits of his body and the fact that he has to earn a livelihood, but to me, that is exactly what it is.

Obviously, the difference is that Joey has little to no choice. Gibson's choice is not limited by an injury concern.

Originally Posted by Irwin3

You can't let it go. Nowhere have I misrepresented what you said. I explained it earlier with the parentheses.

You were saying that people thought he was ****e because of his performances but that by the same token that these performances helped him to get a move

I never wrote that. I wrote Gibson selections was decried by a small section of support and media. I wrote Moyes would value Trap's opinion and faith in a player he's looking at purchasing.

That's Trap's opinion he values and that which he see with his own eyes (since he likely saw Gibson play for Ireland). Not the media or the fans'.

I've explained this three times, and you swung and missed each time while being
fairly insulting. That's ok, the door's swung both ways but you haven't been able to take much stick back. And if you still can't grasp the very, very obvious distinction between what I wrote and what you think it means, I doubt you ever will.

Originally Posted by Irwin3

Yeah, I gave a variety of examples of other players in different circumstances making choices to withdraw from selection.

Steven Reid was another player, like Joey O'Brien, troubled by long-term injury problems, so a comparison between his virtually forced withdrawal from international duty and Gibson's voluntary opting out is again unfair. And you weren't seriously questioning the commitment of Damien Duff (100 caps in 14 years of service) because he retired from country before club at the age of 33, are you?

Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

I never wrote that. I wrote Gibson selections was decried by a small section of support and media. I wrote Moyes would value Trap's opinion and faith in a player he's looking at purchasing.

That's Trap's opinion he values and that which he see with his own eyes (since he likely saw Gibson play for Ireland). Not the media or the fans'.

I've explained this three times, and you swung and missed each time while being
fairly insulting. That's ok, the door's swung both ways but you haven't been able to take much stick back. And if you can't graps the very, very obvious distinction between what I wrote and what you think means, I doubt you ever will.

I've quoted what you said. It's in plain English. You said this:

This despite Gibson's continued selection being held up by a section of support/media as an example of Trap's muppetry.

This clearly implies that people were saying he was ****e, which they indeed were saying. I'm not swinging at anything. You are refusing to acknowledge your own words.

If Moyes valued Trap's opinions then he would have bought Paul Green and Keith Andrews since both were on free transfers and both were rated above Gibson.

I think the one being insulting is the one suggesting that the other is attempting whataboutery, that the other is Darron and that you can tag team someone in to save you from dealing with them.

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Steven Reid was another player, like Joey O'Brien, troubled by long-term injury problems, so a comparison between his virtually forced withdrawal from international duty and Gibson's voluntary opting out is again unfair. And you weren't seriously questioning the commitment of Damien Duff (100 caps in 14 years of service) because he retired from country before club at the age of 33, are you?

Of course not. Like I said, I simply gave a list of players who made choices.

Duff - retired after years of service at 33. Continues to play well at high level for club.
O'Brien - injury problems mean he has to manage schedule.
Reid - retired to focus on club career but remained open to a recall.