Who said we were forcing them back? The point is that without the ball, they won't score, and that seems to be all Trap cares about once we're in the lead.Originally Posted by geysir
Doyle will be out, Long would be the likely lad to start with Cox.
Regards our 'passing game'. I thought that period demonstrated why we don't play a passing game, it was awkward, square stuff.
Armenia dropped off, as they usually do when they bide their time for periods in a game. We hadn't forced them back with our ball retention skills.
That's the period of play when Skrtel said you have to taker your chances.
Our full backs could then move up the field a bit.
I think at least you need a technical central midfielder in the mix, to make it work for us. Fahey is the only player who could do that.
Drop McGeady for Fahey, keep the two grafters at CM?
Otherwise we need to move the ball fast and look for the break from the hoof ball or from the wingers.
The football culture in Ireland is traditionally non-technical, it was not invented by Trap and imposed upon the senior team.
Who said we were forcing them back? The point is that without the ball, they won't score, and that seems to be all Trap cares about once we're in the lead.
Were we not in the lead when we were passing the ball around last night?
The point I made is that we can do that when the other team deliberately backs off. We have a very limited choice of players to impose that type of game or make it effective when the other team backs off. We are more effective looking for breaks from the hoof or from the wingers.
I made my journalistic debut last night so excuse my pride while i give it a plug....!
http://www.universitytimes.ie/?p=5133
"If you don't work harder I'll pull you off at halftime,"
“Crikey, at Manchester City all we get is an orange and a cup of tea,"
I thought Andrews' passing was very good for the 15 or minutes or so in the second half that we looked like a proper football team. We played some nice incisive stuff on the edge of their box too. Fahey would have been an improvement though.
I don't think Cox's was deliberate and I mean that wholly objectively. Doesn't mean it wasn't handball though.
Yes it does.
"If you don't work harder I'll pull you off at halftime,"
“Crikey, at Manchester City all we get is an orange and a cup of tea,"
I actually think we missed Gibson last night.
You know the rules better than I do probably, but if the ref had seen it he'd have called it as a foul. Cox wouldn't have objected much I'm sure, yet at no point did Cox think about bringing the ball down with his hand, I reckon. You regularly see players trying to bring a ball down with their chest but catching it with their upper arm instead.
Most fouls aren't intentional either, doesn't mean they're not fouls. Handball may be worded differently, but the principle as it tends to be applied is the same.
Yeah, you're right, we often see handballs awarded that aren't necessarily "intentional" as the laws demand but are still rarely disputed.
"If you don't work harder I'll pull you off at halftime,"
“Crikey, at Manchester City all we get is an orange and a cup of tea,"
I completely forgot about Darron.
Due to been on a flight halfway round the world, I missed the game and am only catching up now.
On the face of it, a great result and also seeded.
Yes once again we were not assured, good to watch etc but you know what under trap by and large we are getting the results. Some people Ala duñphy and co will never be happy and think we should top the group.
Reality is that we don't have a strong group of players but we are organised and v difficult to beat. The only game where we have been 'found out under trap was the Russia home game I'd recommend that ye read this months world soccer may, they have a very interesting piece on the tactics we employ.
Looking forward to the draw now, having the second leg at home gives us fans a big part to play but I do hope we score an away goal, one one would be great to bring back to the a viva.
Etonia are the obvious preference with Montenegro after that. Bosnia would be who I'd most want to avoid, too many quality players
What was the difference between the 2 incidents of handball by the Armenian goalkeepers?
Why was one a straight red and the other just a yellow?
If intent was the difference, I don't think the goalie intended to end up outside his box for the first red card. And he was quite entitled to have his hands up in the air before his body crossed the white line.
I thought Andrews was one of our best players last night. Thought we played better football at times than we did in whole campaign. McGeady drives me mad but put that great ball in for Dunne's goal (only thing he did all night).
I would start him but bring Hunt on earlier.
Folding my way into the big money!!!
The first denied us a clear goalscoring chance, I assume.
The keeper clearly has his hands down as he's leaving the box, and only raises them when Cox shoots (and when he's three or four yards outside the box)
One was denying a clear goalscoring opportunity, the other was at the side of the box. Imagine if the keeper had tripped the Irish player rather than handling it.
I can't really believe that anyone would argue the red card as not being a deliberate handball. Look at defenders in the Champions League, when jumping to block shots they almost always put their arms behind their backs, just to clearly show no intent to handball. You'd never see a defender blocking a shot jumping while throwing his arms up in the air.
I thought we missed Paul Butler and Joe Lapira too.
Glad to see some fairly positive comments here. Sick of arguing with people about how 'muck' we are supposed to be. As Geysir said - Irish football has always been of the non technical variety. The much referenced Paris performance is the only good passing game I have seen us play in about 21 years of watching us
(open to correction here of course).
Armenoa had a great passing and movement for about half the first half and sporadically in the 2nd amongst their front few players. We are inferior to that no doubt. What they also have is a keeper who sold the jersey by rushing out arms up and getting sent off, a defender poking it home for an OG under no pressure and a central def that were bullied all over the place by Cox and Doyle.
Never felt the panic I expected to feel during this game. Armenia were on top early on but we soon settled and deserved the win. End of. There are more ways to win at football than by doing the Xavi and Messi job right through the centre of a defence. The hoof up to Doyle worked., no harm in exploiting it.
Little bit harsh - the 2-2 in Amsterdam in 2000 was sublime for the most part. A couple of McCarthy's other games were like that too.
Last edited by pineapple stu; 12/10/2011 at 12:36 PM. Reason: Wrong year...
We played a really good attacking game against Yugoslavia at home in the Euro 2000 qualifiers. Probably the best performance I've ever seen by an Irish team.
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