will people claim that was because the players decided not to listen to the manager now?
Says it all when this is listed as an upside of the game.Originally Posted by pineapple stu
will people claim that was because the players decided not to listen to the manager now?
I couldn't agree more.
I am genuinely amazed that so many posters are talking about "an improved performance" "clearly the better side" etc. Just demonstrates to me how blinkered we fans can be when we don't want to see our team's shortcomings.
Nearly as "blinkered" as fans wanting Trap sacked because we should be doing so much better with the players we have
Regarding the keepers red card, i don't think it was a poor decision to send him off given the way the keeper came out, hands in the air etc. Had he kept his hand down by his side once he left the box maybe the keeper'd have a case to be disappointed.
I haven't said that about Trap anywhere.
Its clear we're not blessed with great players, but all of them play in good leagues for decent teams, so you would assume they are capable of passing the ball to each other, but you wouldn't know it on the evidence of last night. Every time our keeper or defence got the ball it was clattered up field for Doyle to try and win it in the air. If we know anything about international football, it's this - if you try that against even moderately good opposition, you lose. Who's responsible for this approach? Do you think the players decide that, or do you think they are instructed to do that? Genuine question.
I largely agree. He was asking for trouble even if he was lucky that Cox hadn't executed the lob properly. I still think it looked clearcut in real time that it came off his chest though.
Also... As well as Cox played... I don't think he done as much to ram the decision to select him down the throat of those who raised eyebrows when he was selected ahead of Long (and arguably Walters based on Club form).
I think it was a case of he didn't dissapoint.
It clearly was an improved performance on Russia away, Andorra away, Slovakia at home and the Croatia friendly though. I'm not sure how anyone could argue otherwise. I acknowledged that we still weren't great. Like it or not though, the Trap plan is to sit on our leads and not press home the advantage - in that context, being able to pass it about like we did last night - for the first time that I remember - is a positive.
I've also no problems saying that we were clearly the better side. We made most of the running during the first half while successfully nullifying a potentially threatening Armenia side, who barely threatened at all.
(Also, Murfinator selectively quoted me somewhat - my point was specifically about playing keep-ball after going 2-0 up, which has been a major failing in recent games)
Definitely agree with PS. Compared to some of the muck we've seen in the last couple of months, last night was much better. I think we were a lot more comfortable than what the scoreline suggests against a dangerous Armenian side. We made it typically difficult but we were the better side by a huge distance in the second half, even at 10 v 10. And in the first half we created the best chances even before their keeper was sent off.
We don't keep possession well. That's reality. I still saw far more last night to be positive about than I've seen in some time.
Sounds weird to me. I thought he was excellent. Nearly all our best chances, not to mention the sending off, came directly through his endeavour. Fully justified his selection imo. He certainly did more than simply 'didn't disappoint'.
Trap doesn't get em all right be a long shot but think he can feel satisfied about Cox and Walters over Long in this situation.
Last edited by SwanVsDalton; 12/10/2011 at 10:07 AM.
Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?
He played well. All things considered though, if it were up to me, I don't think it was enough to warrant a definitive starting place in the next game if all our forward options were fit and available. If it was a straight choice between him and Long for the next game I'd still opt for Long.
Long has in the recent past played better against better defenders.
Lads, was it not Whelan who lost the man for the Armenia goal? Was needlessly sucked towards the ball leaving the space for the pass.
Also has anyone blamed "the system" for Doyle's sending off? Trap should have taken him off as soon as he was booked the first time. It was hugely undisciplined and he should have been punished by being substituted.
Can't tell a lot from a photo in fairness. You can see it better here (particularly the second replay) -
Clearly the wrong decision twice over, I think. Ref was a long way behind play. And in fairness, the ref had a very good game in general.
I think they were both definite handballs. The keeper clearly came out with the intention of handling it if it didn't hit his chest and I think it did catch him on the shoulder/armpit area.
What his intention was doesn't matter. And in any event, he could have come out arms up with the intention of psyching Cox too. It's hard to tell for sure, but it does look like the ball hits him in the upper chest. But as you say, it should have been moot had the handball been given against Cox.
The direction the ball goes tells you that it was two handballs. The only way Cox could of controlled it was with his arm, his chest wouldn't of taken it down like that.
And after the it hits the keepers chest, it clearly hits his arm as the ball starts moving down the way rather than bouncing up off his chest as it would of from Coxys lob.
Well it matters if it hit him on the arm. If he has his arms in the air and it hits his shoulder, it's a foul. If his arms are by his side and it hits his shoulder, no foul.
Sorry; I read that you were saying that regardless of whether it hit him on the arm or not, his intention made it handball.
It was impossible for ref to spot the Cox handball & it was a lot less blatant than Van see Vaart's the other week. I'm not even sure if it was deliberate by Cox.
I'm still undecided about the gk one. I can see why the ref gave the decision when you see it from his angle. Refs are never gonna be 100% about decisions (there must always be some doubt in the back of their mind).
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