What is an acceptable result in the World Cup?

[carnstien]

Just wondering what people would consider an acceptable result when (if) we get to the World Cup. Is qualification in itself enough?

[Bowsy]

As an Irish fan I believe we can go out and beat any team in the world while acknowledging we do not have the strength in depth that many other nations have (e.g England, France, Brazil, etc). The Greeks(who are not as good a side as us IMO) have proved that anyone can win a major championship but that doesn't mean we should expect it. If we qualify(I think we will but am not counting any chickens yet) then we should all believe we can win the competition. That said there should be no recriminations should we only make second round/Quarter finals/etc provided we don't get eliminated with a weak gutless performance like we saw in Basle during the last qualifiers. Basically we should all believe we can win in Germany but should not expect it as we are a very small nation that has always punched above it's weight.

[tiktok]

I don't know, you look at the US, South Korea and Turkey in the last WC and then Greece in the European championships and some of the results we've had over the last few years and I don't see any reason why an Irish team should go to WC just hoping to get out of the group or to the QF's.

On our day we can give anyone a game, the question is can we have five or six consecutive days like that.

But Dav is right, at the moment I'd be happy with us qualifying, the dreaming can start later on.

[Paulie]

Looking at the last couple of international tournaments I think that the traditionally strong teams are not as strong as they once were while the so called weaker teams like ourselves and the likes of the Scandanavian countries will begin to feature on a more regular basis in the latter stages of tournaments. I'm not saying that the likes of France and Spain etc don't have the players. Far from it. What I am saying is that these teams have a much higher percentage of players involved in the latter stages of the Champions League than the likes of ourselves etc. The result of this is that some of their players have played a far higher number of games in a season than players involved with teams that aren't playing in the CL. There is also the psychological effect that this must have on their players. Most of our players play in England. Players from other countries of a similar standard intl. team generally play in leagues of countries like Spain, Italy, France, Germany etc. The difference between these players and the ones that play for the top countries is that they play for mid-table sides in these leagues so when they play for their country it's always a big game for them. I get the impression from some of the big name players that playing for their countries is nearly an inconvenience nowadays, it's just another game for them. As a result of this I think that there will be more suprises in these tournaments from here on out. I'm not saying that the likes of ourselves is going to win every tournamnet from here on out but I do feel that it's a lot more feasable that we can reach the latter stages. Anyway that's my thinking on it for what it's worth.

[NeilMcD]

I think our manager and our players are now of the opinion we should always aim for the best result possible. There is no danger in expecting to win and preparing to win games. Whereas there is a danger of selling yourself short. We should expect to qualify and then when we get out there we should expect to get out of our group, as we have done at every world cup finals, When we get out of our group we should then treat every match on its merits and do our best to win and if that means us winning the cup well thats what we should do.

[thejollyrodger]

Semi Finals (realistically)

[carnstien]

Yeah..... ....right....

Could you explain why you find that so amusing?

[thejollyrodger]

Yeah..... ....right....

We have certaintly an excellent chance of making the Semi's, Just looking around some of the teams, they are all in decline...

(listed are furtherist each can reach)

Americas
Brasil - To Win
Argentina - Semi (MAYBE)
USA - average Last 16

Europe
Gemany - on the way down 1/4 finals or Semi (the way they play)
France - as above
Spain - please wait for the usual spanish collapse last 16
Italy - Finall or Semis (altough not a great side anymore)
Czech - (nice football, but once closed down look average) last 16
Portugal - 1/4's
Holland - (Contining with their in fighting... golden days are long gone) last 16
Russia - Crap, group stage
England - Average, 1/4 Finals


Asia
Korea ?
Japan ?

Africa
A few average teams but nothing that jumps out

[eirebhoy]

The topic isn't what we should be aiming for but what is acceptable. A good performance is acceptable by me TBH since we (usually) have the lowest populated country in the competition.

[carnstien]

The greatest Irish side of the late'80's would have struggled to do this....as the Greeks have shown,not impossible but v.unlikely to happen again so soon though there is some general 'levelling-out' in int.footy.

We dont have the squad to challenge(forget the RMK factor) & we'd do fantastically if we qualified automatically(M.McC,RMK et al deserved this in 2002!).....maybe a couple of young players'll come through...the Quarters with the current XI would be magic.....No Guarantee we'll even qualify!Esp.given the temperament of certain'star' players,who are hardly reliable!

PS.Carnstein.....'REID'is spelt thus(by 'Ried' do you mean Karl-Heinz;has he come out of retirement with RMK?!).....not how you spell yer moniker..lol

To be honest I can't agree that we don't have a squad capable of doing very well. If you look at our players, Given, Carr, Finnan, O'Shea, Duff, Roy Keane and Robbie Keane would make or be very close to any international side in the world. If Milller and Ried reach their potential thats two more you can add to that list by the time the WC comes around.

I think most of the players above would make the England team and they go into every competition expecting to win the thing.

[eirebhoy]

If Milller and Ried reach their potential

You have to be doing that on purpose.

[tiktok]

To be honest I can't agree that we don't have a squad capable of doing very well. If you look at our players, Given, Carr, Finnan, O'Shea, Duff, Roy Keane and Robbie Keane would make or be very close to any international side in the world. If Milller and Ried reach their potential thats two more you can add to that list by the time the WC comes around.

I think most of the players above would make the England team and they go into every competition expecting to win the thing.

... yeah, but they never win do they, in any event I'd disagree with a lot of that

Given is a good shot stopper and certainly better than what England have at the mo'
Carr maybe if he stays fit
Finnan and O'Shea wouldn't get near most quality international sides IMO, though O'Shea would be closer given the CL experience
Duff would walk onto a lot of teams if he stays fit
Keano would too, but again, he's a shadow of his former self and come 2006 I'm not sure how much of an influence he'll be
Robbie Keane is an average premiership striker, most sides that will qualify for WC2006 will have a better option
Miller wil probably come good, I'm not sure that Reid ( ei ei oh! ) will be premiership player next season let alone a world beater.

We don't have nine world class players I'm afraid, but then Irish teams have always been about more than the sum of their parts and punching above their weight. IMO we have one WC player at the moment and one legend who's on his swansong.

There are some very promising youngsters coming through though.

[Bowsy]

Would agree with most of what you said there tiktok. I do reckon Shay is world class though. I would probably only rate Niemi over him in the Premiership. Carr on current form would struggle to get past Neville as England right back and there is no way O'shea would get in at left back for England ahead of arguably their man of the tournament Ashley Cole. I think Robbie will be one of the great strikers in world football once he starts taking more chances. Only 23 remember. I think people forget sometimes how young he is.
As for Reid in Miller, they have great potential but would no more walk into any International team in the world at this stage than Darren Fletcher or David Bentley. Reid is running short of Premiership offers at the moment and i doubt Spurs will return with an improved offer now Santini is in charge.

[liam88]

How do the qaulifiers work? Is it top 2 from each group automatic and 3rd is playoff? Or top is automatic and second is playoff?
As it's been said-things willchange between now and then-we need to qualify. We CAN'T afford to drop points at home and we can't let the 'weaker' teams in our group get away with draws. We should be looking to win every match but drawing to the likes of Israel, Cyprus and the Faroes will be unnaceptable.

This (or better) should be possible and should do it for us, dependant on other results obviously;

Cyprus-Win home and away
Israel-Win home and away
Faroes-Win home and away
Switzerland-Win home, Draw/win away
France-Win/Draw home, Draw away

I know it's a tall order but we CAN do it and if we keep a good strong sqaud with players from the youth sqaud, Aiden and other new face coming up we should do it. We don't want a situation where we're sunk if Duff/Keane/Shay get injured.

That's my views

[eirebhoy]

How do the qaulifiers work? Is it top 2 from each group automatic and 3rd is playoff? Or top is automatic and second is playoff?
As it's been said-things willchange between now and then-we need to qualify. We CAN'T afford to drop points at home and we can't let the 'weaker' teams in our group get away with draws. We should be looking to win every match but drawing to the likes of Israel, Cyprus and the Faroes will be unnaceptable.

This (or better) should be possible and should do it for us, dependant on other results obviously;

Cyprus-Win home and away
Israel-Win home and away
Faroes-Win home and away
Switzerland-Win home, Draw/win away
France-Win/Draw home, Draw away

The winner of the groups qualify automatically. The 2 best 2nd place teams also qualify automatically. The other 6 2nd place teams go into the playoffs.

I have said this 100 times already, don't underestimate Israel on their home turf. They haven't been beaten at home since 1999 (13 matches) and their home record is twice as good as Switzerland. I'd expect us to get a better result in Basel than Israel. I think we can beat every team at home but I won't be expecting anything in Paris.

[eirebhoy]

Davros, 1 post would have probably been OK.

[carnstien]

Finnan and O'Shea wouldn't get near most quality international sides IMO, though O'Shea would be closer given the CL experience

Robbie Keane is an average premiership striker, most sides that will qualify for WC2006 will have a better option

I Think Finnan is vastly underated. He will play Champions league football with Liverpool this season and I think by this time next year he will be given the credit he deserves.

O'Shea like Miller and rEId is still just potential but I fully believe that those three players will become world class.

As for Robbie, I would take him over Micheal Owen at the moment and when you compare Robbie to so called superior strikers like Henry, Trezeguet, Totti etc. you have to note that Robbie has performed on the big stage in the past, where as many others with bigger reputations have not.

[lopez]

They haven't been beaten at home since 1999 (13 matches) and their home record is twice as good as Switzerland. I'd expect us to get a better result in Basel than Israel. I think we can beat every team at home but I won't be expecting anything in Paris.

Was that when they all went on a drink/drugs/dames fest and go battered by Denmark the following day? Don't think they've played much at home since either. However I was witness to our first visit to the Holy Land and it was a 3-0 disgrace by what looks like the role models for the Israelis the night before they took on Denmark. I'm hoping that Israel will take more points off our rivals than ourselves.

[eirebhoy]

Last 26 home results:

Israel (ISR) 1:1 Moldova (MDA)
Israel (ISR) 2:1 Lithuania (LTU)
Israel (ISR) 6:0 Azerbaijan (AZE)
Israel (ISR) 0:0 Moldova (MDA)
Israel (ISR) 2:0 Armenia (ARM)
Israel (ISR) 1:1 Austria (AUT)
Israel (ISR) 1:1 Spain (ESP)
Israel (ISR) 1:0 Moldova (MDA)
Israel (ISR) 2:0 Uzbekistan (UZB)
Israel (ISR) 3:1 Bosnia-Herzegovina (BIH)
Israel (ISR) 2:0 Liechtenstein (LIE)
Israel (ISR) 1:1 Georgia (GEO)
Israel (ISR) 4:1 Russia (RUS)
Israel (ISR) 0:5 Denmark (DEN) - 13.11.1999
Israel (ISR) 8:0 San Marino (SMR)
Israel (ISR) 5:0 Austria (AUT)
Israel (ISR) 3:0 Cyprus (CYP)
Israel (ISR) 2:0 Latvia (LVA)
Israel (ISR) 2:1 Belarus (BLR)
Israel (ISR) 0:1 Norway (NOR)
Israel (ISR) 7:0 Estonia (EST)
Israel (ISR) 2:0 Yugoslavia (YUG)
Israel (ISR) 1:2 Spain (ESP)
Israel (ISR) 2:1 Argentina (ARG)
Israel (ISR) 2:0 Poland (POL)
Israel (ISR) 4:0 Turkey (TUR)

Also, Russia have only lost once at home since 1998 (25 matches) and that was against Israel last year.

[Bowsy]

Impressive home record for a so called weaker team particularly the drubbings of Turkey, Estonia, Azerbaijan, and San Marino. Don't think they'll challenge for the group but 3 points there would be a fantastic result.

eirebhoy you truly are master of the stat.