QuoteForget FORAS, call for Samaritans and Dr. Kevorkian. Getting seriously scary on the Carrick Road.
Relegation fodder next season....we are a mess! Might need some help from the Foras lads..
Forget FORAS, call for Samaritans and Dr. Kevorkian. Getting seriously scary on the Carrick Road.
Its a right bloody mess that needs sorting ASAP.Originally Posted by Spudulika
I don't think that that consortium that was trieing to take over would have been good for the club,seems to me that they were getting into it to make money and as everyone know's; you won't make money running a LOI clubl !!!
That said,i don't realy trust Gerry Matthews either.
Matthews statement translated.
1/ I never wanted to sell as I own the YDC and I want to re-coup the money.
2/ I never thought any viable offer would come in.
3/ Until my business interests are satisfied, I am not selling out.
4/ If it means the football club going bust, I dont care as I own the company and the YDC is on the land. Thats my concern.
5/ Dont make any other offers, as I will dictate what happens from here onwards
6/ 2012 season, is there one> I know nothing about football anyway, so I dont care.
Tom Coughlan v Cork City Fans all over again, we have got to get this man out before he destroys the football club.
#DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), only Irish club to win a game / points in Europa League Group Stage (2016).
this is scary, it seems very similiar to GUFC, ceo trying to cover stuff etc, anything but just open the book and let people look in
I would advise any supporters of Dundalk to get right under the bonnet of this one before getting involved
I am looking very nervously at this situation. I only met GM a handful of times and can't judge him as a person, however I admire many of the things he has done for Dundalk (I won't condemn him for the YDC as it's dangerous ground for the forum) and he is right to go. I said alot earlier that this "member" takeover is too similiar to the co-op which I opposed at the time and gave up my season ticket. And please somebody on the ground enlighten me, but do they believe that they can take over the club and get outside sources to "invest"? Not even Rovers would consider this and they had a powerful revenue stream from the 400 club. It is all well and good to say "we'll run it and get investors in", but how in the name of god do you repay investors? I've seen this way too often, we all have, and it just doesn't end well.
Oriel, I wouldn't go as far as comparing GM to Big Tom, but if a certain person rolls down the road from Monaghan........(with "investors" in tow)
No surprise Foster go the boot as given the quality players ye have (Cherrie, Quigley, Kearns to name just 3), and the great manager Foster believes he is, ye really have underperformed
"Billy Corgan, Smashing Pumpkins."
"Homer Simpson, smiling politely."
I wouldn't go as far as Tommy no bobs as GM has done a hell of a lot for the club but it seems the cliff notes are GM basically has scaremongered the handover of the club to the trust at some unknown point in the future while he can cut costs to below the bare minimum to get the most income out of the club before that happens. The consortium and the trust came to an agreement thursday after GM putting the feelers out again to them I think for a joint takeover with GM setting the deadline of the day after, friday. When they went back to him he turned around and refused it (as is his legal right as the owner to be fair) and said he's just going to hand the club over to the trust on a phased basis in 2012. Some skullduggery going on.
Read the statements on the official website. Looks like a bit of mess.
As a FORAS member I'd advise every DFC supporter to join the Trust if you want to have a say in the club.It sounds like they will be crucial to any new ownership structure.
I'm what? I'm ants at a picnic?
its classic behaviour of people papering over cracks. seen it all here out west last year, the debt is small, manageable everything is ok, if only we could get more supporters. Open the press and earth shattering debts fell out everywhere. Why does an ongoing licencing process not pick these up, is it tick box and no one reads the trends.
There are one or two great staff in that licence office , they should be let in to clubs bi monthly or quarterly to check whats really going on.
A lot of peole on Orielweb seem to have made up their minds already and are knee-jerking and taking sides.For me.both sides are dangerous(GM V Bond&Co) and a takeover by the trust is the only way forward.This might take some time but it will ultmately put the Club right back in the fans hands.
Last edited by bullit; 31/10/2011 at 5:42 AM.
Bullit, while I agree in principle with the Trust taking over, there aren't the numbers there to make it viable. In addition they have seemed to be quite clueless in all of this and have allowed themselves to be mucked about. If it's true that they believe they can run the club and get investors, that seems to be almost deluded. What are the Casey's doing about all of this? I mean, have they not said anything (can't see anything online), especially the issue over the YDC.
Again, nothing against the Trust, this season I've seen first hand the sterling work they do, but I fear another co-op.
Last edited by Spudulika; 31/10/2011 at 7:42 AM. Reason: spelling
Spud if you think the Trust were clueless throughout this process you are greatly mistaken. Expert legal advise was taken at every step of the way. If the Trusts legal contacts were not in a position to address certain concerns the expertise further afield was sought. All 'available' accounts were scrutinised with accountants sitting in on meetings as proposals were toing and froing. Reps from supporters direct flew in for discussions. I believe contact was made with Cork Foras other supporter groups in the UK and Ireland. The ground work that was put in from mid summer was immense. Even with this the Trust would acknowledge that there was still a distance to go!
The issue is that much came to light during this process that were of concern but not insurmountable. As the GUST found the deeper you dig the bigger the hole. Ultimately as solutions were found the problems conveniently changed! This in no way implies nieve or clueless process on behalf of the Trust but the ducking and diving by club owners.
As Foras also found out it is impossible to deal with a person who deluded in their own ideas for a club )or indeed generally deluded). Indeed the concept of the potential supporters run club being successful and obtaining members and/or investment is a lot less deluded than the opinions of the current board. The Casey's have and continue to input to the process depending on the circumstances of discussion!!
The model proposed by the Trust is far from the Co-op model and that will become apparent in due course.
Last edited by Nesta99; 31/10/2011 at 4:32 PM.
I didn't think it at all, it is the appearance of such in the fiasco, and it wasn't relation to expertise, it was being played off another party for the ceo's gain (advantage). Everyone knows that once somebody has something to lose (the ceo and a few around him) then they'll hang on as much as possible. What I don't understand is why there was never signed an MOU, something with legal value to show progress as everything seems to be verbal or "on trust", yet I've found that in sports nothing can be done in trust, because even with a contract you are still liable for a kick in the backside.
It is only my opinion that looking for investment when it's a members run club is a little deluded, especially in the LOI. The Trust can operate the club on the funds it raises and build on it, forget investment, it's a slippery slope and can see the club go bang. I do hope you're right on path not going the way of the co-op, I was a bit worried by the previous takeover group (though at least one of them I know to have nothing but 100% DFC success in his heart) being not too far from this.
Are the Casey's set against GM? (just reading between your lines).
Last edited by Spudulika; 31/10/2011 at 5:59 PM.
Be prepared during all this to be called naive, not of the football family, you will hear terms like "elephant in the room" sssshhhhh loads of "we dont wash our linen in public" . When you seek the truth and honesty around this league enemies appear so beware. No one at any club has anything to fear from the truth. Seek it , call for it and hold open meetings to verify it.
I can remember stories like ah ya it says we owe fifteen thousand on the statement but we dont really owe it.
"im putting a claim in to the fai but i will never claim it"
Now if we could get the supporters to buy season tickets, hold a fundraiser , a dog night well then everything will be grand. Oh also watch out for committee members affiliated to looney so called professional bodies to set in train a series of whispers to people journos etc that never seem to double check 2 sided stories. Expect fan led takeovers to be called "naive" again and again.
But Honesty, Integrity are nothing to be ashamed of. Dig Dig Dig and ask Supporters Direct they have seen it multiple times up and down the UK.
The clubs being run by trusts should try and get supporters direct more involved with the NLEC committee as well. There are plenty of details of the running of the league that have to be addressed and quickly. Best of Luck to DFC, There is plenty of help available, There is one lad i know at gufc who keeps a close affiliation to supporters direct uk that advice is available free, just pm me
Last edited by geezer; 31/10/2011 at 7:28 PM.
Its my understanding (looking from the outside) that the Casey's have been more than accomodating in helping to alter the terms of the lease to allow the subletting of the supposed YDC (more a multi purpose centre really) by the club to GM.
Just to add to your last point Spud, the lads in the trust, i know, won't be bullied by anyone and especially no by Matthews. They are in the precarious situation of being used but ultimately if the deal isn;t right I don't think they will accept it.
From being involved in M&A's there will be many twists and turns along the way. Even though the bond consortium deal has been rejected, I wouldnt say that "that is it for them". They could, I feel come back into the equation.
For whatever happens, the Dundalk Fc Trust will have some great involvement in the club and they will have a real share/voice in the day to day running and in the medium to long term strategy of the club. The trust boys have dfc 100% at heart and have and will serve the club well. The rest of us DFC fans need to accept the changing times get behind them and support them.
Long Live King Kenny
Jinxy that's what annoys me, that people who are after doing a terrific job, much of it thankless or unseen, getting messed about between moneymen. I don't doubt for a moment CB's efforts and a certain man from Fastfix, and I do know that GM has put in a fair amount of work, time and money, but something has been smelling with all of this and I am worried that the genuine people will lose out again. I'll personally support the trust if they take control of the club. It's a small amount each month to pay to support their efforts.
Good post Geezer, Dundalk are in a slightly better position with a local media pretty supportive of the supporters efforts. Though there is so much going on that it is going to hit the club in the close season.
Spud I have to reiterate what Jinxy was saying - there is no way that the Trust are being used as a make-weight piggy in the middle! The vast majority of progress made in producing the beginings of transparency is because the Trust asked the hard questions and in a Paxmanesque manner did not allow any deflection or spin. Now the fact that the Trust has essentially kept its powder dry in the current public washing of dirty laundry betweeen other partys is showing a sense of cool heads in a very heated situation. To underestimate the DFC Trust, its internal expertise, general determination, its ability to blow this mess wide open (which could happen if need be) and so on would be foolhardy for anybody who peers in the direction of DFC. In essence the Trust already deal with many of the major income streams, the programme, official website, merchandising, match day personnel ond so on, infact the parts of DFC that are done and run in a proper and professional manner!!! There is the very important issue of 'trust' (no pun intended), whereby supporters and the wider community recognise that the bullsh*t merchants are not among the Trust's ranks-a very important commodity for now and going forward!
Geezer the advice and sharing or experiences is much appreciated of course - the more shared experience the better but it is still early doors as I see it no matter how catastrophic everything seems to be presented at the moment; local media are getting it easy these days!!
Jinxy Des Casey and family have been as accomodating as they possibly can be without compromising an agreement that safegaurds our home trust is key on this matter(pun intended this time)
Last edited by Nesta99; 01/11/2011 at 11:49 AM.
yes nesta, but also I feel the Casey family are open to this because of the trust and the trust will be pivotal in the make up of the new companySpud I have to reiterate what Jinxy was saying - there is no way that the Trust are being used as a make-weight piggy in the middle! The vast majority of progress made in producing the beginings of transparency is because the Trust asked the hard questions and in a Paxmanesque manner did not allow any deflection or spin. Now the fact that the Trust has essentially kept its powder dry in the current public washing of dirty laundry betweeen other partys is showing a sense of cool heads in a very heated situation. To underestimate the DFC Trust, its internal expertise, general determination, its ability to blow this mess wide open (which could happen if need be) and so on would be foolhardy for anybody who peers in the direction of DFC. In essence the Trust already deal with many of the major income streams, the programme, official website, merchandising, match day personnel ond so on, infact the parts of DFC that are done and run in a proper and professional manner!!! There is the very important issue of 'trust' (no pun intended), whereby supporters and the wider community recognise that the bullsh*t merchants are not among the Trust's ranks-a very important commodity for now and going forward!
Geezer the advice and sharing or experiences is much appreciated of course - the more shared experience the better but it is still early doors as I see it no matter how catastrophic everything seems to be presented at the moment; local media are getting it easy these days!!
Jinxy Des Casey and family have been as accomodating as they possibly can be without compromising an agreement that safegaurds our home trust is key on this matter(pun intended this time)
Long Live King Kenny
Thats exactly what i meant, the consortium bid would never have been a runner, and GM is not in the cosiest place round Oriel so without the Trust a Casey brick wall is quite formidable!
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