Most disappoint thing After tongiht

**Metrostars** · 07/09/2011, 3:11 AM

We can play the should've-could've-would've game after October 11. Fact is right now we still control our destiny and if we win our final two games we're guaranteed a playoff spot at least.

**OwlsFan** · 07/09/2011, 9:44 AM

Still unbeaten away from home, including trips to Italy, France, Russia, Slovakia, Armenia etc etc, and people still question Trap's formation away from home. Be careful what you wish for. If someone had told me when Trap took the reins that in 2 campaigns with the many average players we have we'd be unbeaten away from home (not forgetting Andorra), I'd have said they were mad. His system WORKS away from home. For the first time we were outplayed in an away game but we still didn't lose. A makeshift defence stuck at it with two players particularly outstanding. Some luck but defenders playing well is not luck. Thank heavens for the "meaningless friendlies" that gave O'Dea and Kelly game time in the defence.

At home is another issue. We have been poor at home. No doubt about that. God knows we weren't even great against Andorra. He won't change now but perhaps for the next campaign, he might have to reconsider but at 70+ I am not too sure he'll be open to new ideas. Might depend of course on the players at his disposal.

For the moment, it's job done and after the result in Slovakia, who knows what might happen next. To hell with systems at the moment. It's all about results.

**Stuttgart88** · 07/09/2011, 9:57 AM

Much has been made of Trap's luck in the 3 years to date. In previous threads I've stepped up to make a pretty convincing case that this is only looking at half the picture. We've had some bad luck too, penalties not given, good goals disallowed, competing teams getting 95th minute winners in their other matches...

Last night was the first time I can think that we just totally winged it.

Paul, you're not exactly being a visionary claiming Slovakia are no great shakes. But guess what - neither are we.

Biggest disappointments?

(1) Not having put Slovakia to the sword at least once, as we'd be sitting pretty otherwise.

(2) We can't string 2 passes together.

**Bottle of Tonic** · 07/09/2011, 10:05 AM

Good post OwlsFan. We all know its not pretty, we play with basically no midfield, but our record (and Traps personal record) speaks for itself. Home form has deteriorated a bit, but away we have gone from a side who routinely lost against anyone semi decent and up, and often drew or struggled vs the mid ranking teams to one that now shuts out top ranking teams and gets wins or draws vs our mid ranked rivals.

I think Trap has more control over this force called 'luck' than people give him credit for.

**Stuttgart88** · 07/09/2011, 10:11 AM

Robbie missed a late gilt-edged haeded chance on Friday. We call that sloppy play (or worse).

Russia missed a late gilt-edged headed chance yesterday. We call that good luck.

If one is good luck, the other must be bad luck, no?

OwlsFan says there is nothing lucky about having a great defender. I agree, but even acknowledging that I thought we were lucky last night.

I actually thought we were unlucky in Slovakia. We played well enough to win, but that was a year ago.

Luck isn't the issue. I think we are where we deserve to be in this group. Making us improve from here is the big worry.

**shakermaker1982** · 07/09/2011, 10:11 AM

His system works for half our campaign (the away games). The miracle in Moscow won't happen again in the play offs ( away leg) if we play that poorly. It's not every day a side is that wasteful in front of goal. If Russia had taken their clear cut chances & scored 3 or 4 we'd be saying how crap the defending was...funny old game.

I really wish we had some friendly games coming up so other midfielders could show him that they have the right 'personality' to replace Whelan & Andrews for good.

**Stuttgart88** · 07/09/2011, 10:17 AM

I'm going to say it. I've been fighting it, but dammit, I'll let it out.

As a stop gap I'd like to see John O'Shea back in CM.

Kelly looked a better full back last night, and O'Dea & SSL are fine partners for Dunne - even a decent enough pairing by themselves.

**Noelys Guitar** · 07/09/2011, 11:12 AM

If Long keeps scoring for West Brom and stays fit then that will solve our biggest problem. Putting the ball in the net from maybe one or two chances in an entire game against top teams. I'm certain he would have scored against Slovakia at home. And he would have caused the Russian defense more problems than Robbie, Doyle or Cox. Might even have scored in his current form. We will need him against Armenia. We thought we had an abundance of forwards in form but the home game against Slovakia shook that belief. McCarthy was on the bench last night so he is getting further up the pecking order (even if the injured players like Gibson and Fahey return). A couple of small changes and we can look forward to the next 2 to 4 games depending on how results pan out.

**tetsujin1979** · 07/09/2011, 11:23 AM

The U21s are playing away to Liechtenstein on the 11th October, the same day as the game against Armenia, but I'd expect McCarthy to be released from that game

**SwanVsDalton** · 07/09/2011, 12:14 PM

Luck isn't the issue. Swings and roundabouts, we were due a slice last night and duly got it. Although I still wouldn't overplay it because it wasn't luck which allowed Richard Dunne to lunge back for that incredible goalline clearance, or Given to sprawl across goal to make saves, or Kelly, O'Dea, Andrews, Whelan and Ward to make great tackles and blocks. It was ability and a large proportion of hunger. Some of those guys got rewarded for some serious guts and fair play on that count.

As some of said, our main problem is home form and overcoming any play-off. It's very disappointing at this point in Trap's reign we've yet to see a really convincing home performance. The worry would be Trap's results only mentalitee will allow him to plough on regardless, but I think overcoming the play-off (particularly at home) will necessitate some change up.

Right now I'm just relieved we're still alive, but it shouldn't obscure the problems.

**cufc champions** · 07/09/2011, 12:52 PM

In a months time we should have St Ledger back and O'Shea, Fahey, Doyle, Long and Keane fit. I believe that we played these games with clearly unfit players and it nearly cost us dearly. The impact Cox made in his cameo apperence has giving me hope as if we having a player able to hold the ball up and bring our team forward we will be able to get Duff McGeady and Hunt on the ball in dangerous areas. Shane Long could well be the difference between qualifying and not.
Left back is a worry, I was one of many caliing for Wards inclusion after last week he has along way to go to be a bona fide international baller, but Kilbane would be an even bigger worry in there.

**Duggie** · 07/09/2011, 12:55 PM

i wanted Ward in aswell but the last 2 games looks like hes not up to it. apart from giving the ball away every single time it seemed he was caught out of position time and time again. McGeady was our left back and our left winger last night.

**Crosby87** · 07/09/2011, 1:09 PM

My question to you guys who really get into the nuts and bolts of a Managers tactics and ability to motivate, and this includes you POSH, if you could choose any manager for Ireland, do you really think our results would be much different? I'll use Mourinho as an example. If he had been manager for this entire campaign how many points would we have?
I think we are pretty much a middling team playing against a nation yesterday with many more millions of people while having injuries and suspensions coming off a hard fought draw a few nights before... and I'm not sure if any manager could change that. We played in Russia after the Slovakia game and didnt lose, and Slovakia lost 4-0 to Armenia.
If we played Russia in Moscow ten times in the next 10 weeks we would lose 5 or 6 and go 0-0 in the other 4 or 5. There couldnt possibly be a worse surface for Ireland to play on than that.

**Wolfie** · 07/09/2011, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Still unbeaten away from home, including trips to Italy, France, Russia, Slovakia, Armenia etc etc, and people still question Trap's formation away from home. Be careful what you wish for. If someone had told me when Trap took the reins that in 2 campaigns with the many average players we have we'd be unbeaten away from home (not forgetting Andorra), I'd have said they were mad. His system WORKS away from home. For the first time we were outplayed in an away game but we still didn't lose. A makeshift defence stuck at it with two players particularly outstanding. Some luck but defenders playing well is not luck. Thank heavens for the "meaningless friendlies" that gave O'Dea and Kelly game time in the defence.

At home is another issue. We have been poor at home. No doubt about that. God knows we weren't even great against Andorra. He won't change now but perhaps for the next campaign, he might have to reconsider but at 70+ I am not too sure he'll be open to new ideas. Might depend of course on the players at his disposal.

For the moment, it's job done and after the result in Slovakia, who knows what might happen next. To hell with systems at the moment. It's all about results.

Well said. I can recall from the earliest indications that Trapp was in line for the Managers job, many posters on here accurately identified the obvious but pertinent point that a "defensive", "Italian" style of tactics would be adopted. Someone even posted "Get ready for a lot of nil all's!!".

We've been provided with the Managerial tactics that we sought out and paid for in 2008. Are people really that surprised that we're reaping what we've sown??

Yes, we rode our luck last night but the old cliche rings through - these things tend to balance themselves out over periods of time. For every Paris '09, we'll have a Moscow '11.

Far from assuming we head into the last game with 18 points, (but lets face it, if we don't beat Andorra, we don't deserve even a play off spot), Armenia will be very tough opponents who will be technically superior to us. There should be nothing taken for granted aganst them.

Many nations reach play offs and even achieve automatic qualification in a less than spectacular style - I wouldn't be losing any sleep about it!!!

That said, there is the obvious concern as to whether there is any future in fielding teams with little or no creative and offensive ability.

**Crosby87** · 07/09/2011, 1:12 PM

36 people dead in plane crash in Moscow...the team is out of there right? Seems like around the number they would have on the charter.

**paul_oshea** · 07/09/2011, 1:15 PM

They flew out after the game.

**Duggie** · 07/09/2011, 1:16 PM

my problem is just this, even if Trap tells whelan and andrews just to sit there they should still be able to get on the ball like and pass it around a bit. no matter how bad you are you should be able to at least get on the ball. look at paris when they played really well. they can do it but we havent seen it this campaign atal. surely they dont need to be told to get on the ball, just do it. but in the games they just seem to be non-existent going forward. if we could solve this problem we have a more than decent team/squad.