No, we're royally buggered if there is 3 way tie.Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
No, we'd finish third in that case as the our head-to-head results are the worst of the three. If we were to finish level with just Slovakia, however, we'd finish above them as our head-to-head record against them alone is superior.
No, we're royally buggered if there is 3 way tie.
When on God's green earth is the light bulb going to go off for Trap to realize that Robbie Keane simply has to be played in midfield - top of the diamond, behind the front two.
Put Doyle and Long (or Cox if he's injured) up front with Robbie receiving the ball in midfield, and producing a feint here or there to make things happen for them. Robbie didn't do much last night but he did show that he had the composure to receive a pass and find an open lane in the Slovak defence. And all of this was done in a midfield position (he was supposed to be a striker but had to drop back to get the ball).
Everyone and his mother agrees that we need a presence in midfield, so why not take the easy option in Robbie. Also I am slightly disappointed that Trap dropped Walters. We badly needed a big man up front last night, didn't we? If Walters had have been there in the second half we would have had a target man. As much as we think we can play it on the floor we still prefer to hoof it long to the target man.
Big game for Ireland on Tuesday, even bigger for Trap.
Trap talked about playing Robbie in the Totti role before his first game in charge. Strangely, the only time he actually tried it was against Italy away after Folan came on.
Robbies not in the game for the bulk of the time since we never have the ball or any possession to feed him with. It does seem illogical to me to play a 4-4-2 when a) a long ball to a target man isn't an option and b) you don't have much possession. It just leaves 2 players isolated and out of the game for much of it. I wouldn't even object to a 4-6-0 and attacking from deep, our formation as it is just doesn't make sense with what we have.
We got overrun playing that system against Russia before so it'll be interesting to see what Trap has learned from that.
Trap latest from the Observer.
Trapattoni will not alter his tactics at the Luzhniki Stadium, where the artificial pitch will present its own problems, and he believes his team are merely one converted chance from reinvigorating their campaign.
Shane Long will miss the qualifier because of a calf injury, meaning that Trapattoni will chose between Kevin Doyle, who laboured against Slovakia, and Simon Cox, who replaced him after 64 minutes, for the attacking berth alongside Robbie Keane. Trapattoni admitted that he might have played five in midfield had the team beaten Slovakia but the imperative is to carry the fight to Russia.
"If we create the same opportunities [in Moscow], it's vital that we take them," Trapattoni said. "I would have been more disappointed against Slovakia if we had not created chances but now, we need to score. Our defence played well. Six successive clean sheets [a national record] is good for our growth and mentality. But we will look to win against Russia."
Trapattoni added: "Same approach, same approach. This group is not like Manchester United versus Arsenal, with 8-2 scorelines. The games are 1-0, 2-1 … very close. No panic. There might be one day of disappointment after Slovakia, but then the confidence comes back."
Trapattoni suggested that the Leeds United centre-half Darren O'Dea would deputise for the suspended Sean St Ledger as his players considered the prospect of the Luzhniki's surface.
"I do think it's an unfair advantage," said the goalkeeper Shay Given. "They're the only team in Europe who play on a plastic pitch.
So O'Dea for St Ledger and possibly Cox and Keane up front rather than Doyle and Keane.
Last edited by Noelys Guitar; 04/09/2011 at 12:48 AM.
Well that's not true.
I've watched Robbie Keane play for years and I think his best position is at the top of the diamond, and in behind the front two as well. However, this formation would get us eaten alive against the likes of Russia. We're likely to get sliced and diced with two holding midfielders right in front of the back four. How do you think we'd fare with only one there?
The only way to play Russia is man on man. Kick Arshavin up in the air a couple of times and he'll go very quiet. Hammer into the midfield and lift Kerzhakov out of it. They have no fight or bottle and without Arshavin no invention. The single biggest mistake made in Dublin was standing back and admiring their work. A crap team can look good if you don't put a boot in. If Ireland get stuck in, keep the Russians quiet for 30minutes, then suddenly the crowd will turn and the home players crumble. We have the man power, we have the ability, it's down to the players, not just the manager. The players showed how ingrained in the sky league way of thinking they are - boot it long and hard. By contrast (and despite not being near match fit) McGeady tried to move with the ball even when winning it in a tackle or contest. We are better than Russia, we just have to play like it.
Thinking about it keane has scored some very important goals for us.but in the same instance he has missed at least double that amount in what we needed.
I don't like to think where we would be without him - even now!
Russia are far from being a crap team. They are not consistently a good team but quite capable of coming good enough.
I'd rate them as not as good as the French team we played brilliantly against in Paris. I'm not saying the game is ripe for the taking, but it's definitely winnable if we play to our very best and things go our way.
Interestingly, this site gives us a 73.6% chance of qualifying at this stage.
I'd have thought Slovakia's prospects were a fair bit brighter than 6.6%. For the game on Tuesday though, just having a look at William Hill Online and they have us at 4/1 to win, Russia at 8/13 to win and a draw at 23/10. Betfair has us at 9/2, Russia at 4/5 and a draw at 13/5.
According to this, Russia's highest attendance in the group so far was 28,000. I was watching the Macedonia game and the stadium was about a third full. Will it be the same for our game or might the game attract a near-capacity crowd?
Some other surprising ones in that list; Spain's highest attendance so far has been 16,800 and Italy's has been 21,151, although Spain appear to be playing all their home games at relatively minor stadiums in smaller cities around Spain like Granada, Salamanca, Logroņo and Alicante. I think the Italian national team regularly draws poor crowds. Why is that?
I think we'd be ok if we put an extra body in midfield for the first hour. However 4-4-2 fills me dread when we play technically proficient teams who play 4-5-1 or 4-3-3. We were cut to pieces against Russia in Dublin. Whelan & Andrews will be chasing shadows again I fear unless they both somehow morph into Roy Keane for 90 minutes. Lumping balls to Keane because Whelan & Andrews won't show for the ball in midfield is not gonna win the day. Throw McCarthy into the deep end (we have nobody else to be fair because of injuries) and let us keep the ball in a patient manner, Whelan & Andrews should then get a bit of confidence. Sacrifice Keane & bring him on for the last 20 if it's still scoreless.
PS nightmare trying to type on a bloody phone!
Last edited by shakermaker1982; 04/09/2011 at 11:10 AM.
Crap might be a bit strong, poor is probably a better reflection. Apart from the main player who commands and rules the roost (like Pavlyuchenko he's being groomed for a long career in public service) Arshavin, the Russian squad is without at least 4 players from the domestic league who should be there by merit and ability but, I'm harking on about this because it's the truth, won't get a look in because they don't play for 1 of 2 Russian clubs, don't have the right agent, and they don't fit in with the plan as laid out by the Gazprom boys. There is only one (current) half decent goalgetter in the side and he's not really on form, they have no inventiveness if Arshavin is taken care of, they have a poor defence and even poorer goalkeeper. Ireland can win, they just have to act like winners.
About the only time I was somewhat reassured by odds or stats, was in the early morning (waking up after I dreamt Iran scored) of the return leg against Iran, I checked online and saw we were 1/8 to go through.
DannyI - one part of the stadium will be closed for the Ireland match, reducing the capacity down to about 60,000. A further 10,000 spaces will be boxed off for security purposes. One great thing the tv does here is maximise the ground - RTE are you watching! - they position their cameras to ensure that shots are mostly filled with advertising and faces. Hangover from Commie times I always reckoned!
On the ticket sales front - kassir.ru apparently have sold somewhere in excess of 25,000 tickets (according to the Saturday morning football show on Sport 2). Should be a bumper crowd of up around 40-50,000. 700 fans travelling officially.
Just like in Animal Farm where the food barrels were always filled with rubbish, but topped with the finest farmyard produce so visitors assumed the farm was doing well
I'd rather the experience of O'Shea in the centre with Dunne. Put Foley or Kelly on the right. Our defence will have a lot of work to do if our plan is to inexplicably (?) go with the same approach that saw us dominated by Slovakia on Friday and down by three goals after 50 minutes to Russia 11 months ago. The prospect of O'Dea in there worries me. It's not really as if that Russian game was close either. We pulled two back - one of them a penalty - after they took the foot off the peddle completely.
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