Fahrenheit 9/11

**Dodge** · 06/07/2004, 5:06 PM

Seen it at the weekend. Moore makes some astonishing claims (backed up by paperwork)

Got a round of applause from the crowd in the cinema.

Definitely one for the liberals/lefties

**pete** · 06/07/2004, 5:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Definitely one for the liberals/lefties

Everyone who sees it will already have similar opinions so doubt it will educate many people. Good entertainment though?

**Pablo** · 06/07/2004, 5:35 PM

going tomorrow night.

i'd imagine it'll add fuel to my already growing hatred of Bush? *

*no wise cracks

**max power** · 07/07/2004, 8:07 AM

seen it on sunday, great film....i like moore, but do you believe EVERYTHING in that film, he selects the facts he wants to use and leavs out what he doesn't want to use...

he is always on about the poor, this coming from a multi millionaire. does he do much charity work does anyone know ??????

oh and another thing, how would you rate it compared to his other two film/docs ?

**dortie** · 07/07/2004, 8:14 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Definitely one for the liberals/lefties

Dont tell Brendy_Eire

Im middle left myself, but not left enough to be unemployed rather than work for a large multinational

**Macy** · 07/07/2004, 9:10 AM

Originally Posted by max power

he is always on about the poor, this coming from a multi millionaire.

So what, does he have to be poor to raise issue's that concern or are of benefit to the poor?

**Peadar** · 07/07/2004, 9:13 AM

Originally Posted by dortie

Im middle left myself, but not left enough to be unemployed rather than work for a large multinational

I hear ya!

**max power** · 07/07/2004, 9:13 AM

does all the profits from this movie go to charity, was just raising the point that it is easy to jump on the band wagon but pay no fare......his political points are good, but is it moraly right to make money by highlighting the plight of the poor, yet to give nothing..that is why i asked about any charity work.

**Macy** · 07/07/2004, 9:25 AM

Originally Posted by max power

does all the profits from this movie go to charity, was just raising the point that it is easy to jump on the band wagon but pay no fare......his political points are good, but is it moraly right to make money by highlighting the plight of the poor, yet to give nothing..that is why i asked about any charity work.

Whats better, someone to highlight the issues and make money (which enables them to continue to highlight the issues), or for no one to highlight the issues?

On the charity work, I really don't know. Kinda in a lose lose situation if he does. Publicise it and then he gets accused of doing it for the publicity, don't and he gets accused of making money of the poor and giving nothing back (if you don't think getting coverage for the issues is enough).

**pete** · 07/07/2004, 9:39 AM

Moore labels his movies Opinion pieces as opposed Documentarys as hes not subject to the same scruttuny (spelling?)

**Dodge** · 07/07/2004, 9:46 AM

Nobody can accuse Moore of jumping on the bandwagon as he's been doing films and TV like this for about 15 years now. If anything big film companies are jumping on his badnwagon.

Read an article on him in the guardian (obviously

) saying he does quite a bit for charities and has ploughed money into schools etc in his home town. As macy suggested he didn't announce it as he didn't want right wing press to "tarnish it" Probably spin again but at least the money is getting through

And to answer Pete's question yeah I laughed a fair few times. Nearly cried once too... Some of the scenes in Iraq are truely gruesome and the reaction of some to a family members death is heart wrenching. Thats the skill of Moore, he'll move from light comedy to deadly seriousness and it definitely jolts you.

And again I don't think anyone will change opinions about Bush in America but if it mobilises the Democratic vote and answers some of the "glossiness" of the Iraq war, that'd be job done for Moore methinks.

Likely to top $100 Million in ticket sales in America....

ps...Scrutiny

**noby** · 07/07/2004, 10:25 AM

Is it a sign of the times, where there's such dumbing down of tv programs, that a multi-million blockbuster film should be nothing more than a good tv documentary (or opinoin piece)

p.p.s. scrutiny

**Macy** · 07/07/2004, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Conor74

I think the most famous thing he's consistently hit with is that his daughter attends an elite mostly white private New York school while her father says that's nobody's business and poses as the working class hero...which kinda rings a bell...

May ring a bell, just the same as people from all parties saying it wasn't relevant.....

I just don't get the whole arguement that you have to be poor/ disadvantaged to speak out, or that there's anything contradictory about being rich and speaking out. It's just right wing bullsh�t...

**max power** · 07/07/2004, 11:26 AM

as a pure capitalist i agree with your final point conor, but if he profits from the poor and has put himself up on such morale high grounds, then i feel he should give soemthing back, espcially to flint his home town.

and if he does let people know he does charity work then maybe people like me wouldn't talk about the points raised thus far, but he does keep the politicians in the US on their toes, which is always good.

**Macy** · 07/07/2004, 12:21 PM

Would it be contradictory for a pure capitalist to work for the Civil Service? Surely a non-unionised private company would be the only place to work....

**max power** · 07/07/2004, 1:07 PM

i'm not in the union and never have been in one....i'd walk across any picket line, you know the saying, there is no "i" in team.....but there is a ME !!!

and my charity efforts are below this post for all to see

oh and my capitalist side made me start my own business and pay lots of extra tax to pay for the wages of civil servents, so i'm really paying myself

**Metrostars** · 07/07/2004, 4:02 PM

Moore can do what he wants with his money (he'll probably get fatter at McDonalds), just as long as he doesnt call anyone else stingy with theirs. After all, the like of the Clintons and Gores who were the so-called champions of the "working class" sent their kids to private schools while Bush, as much as I dislike him, sent his kids to public schools. There is a little story over here about Hilary's tax return and how little she gave to charity despite making millions off her book last year. But it's a free country.

As for the movie, I thought it was ok but trying to pin the saudi families exiting on Bush was a little ingenuous as it was Richard Clarke alone who approved that. There were moving moments like the soldier's mother going to Washington etc but I don't think it will really change a lot of people's minds. Moore is as partisan as say Fox News onthe other side, it is difficult to get any sort of reasonable, objective debate over here right now.

**Dodge** · 07/07/2004, 5:33 PM

The difference is that Moore openly talks about his bias whereas a news corparation should be independent...

**Closed Account 2** · 08/07/2004, 3:36 PM

I would take much of what Moore says with a pinch of salt. Im sure he means well but theres an element of a self-publicist about him, and some of what he says is based on flimsy evidence.

I blame Regan for the terrorism, they shouldnt have funded radicals during the Soviet Afghan war. That war lead to this perpetually-propigated myth that Islam defeated Communism, and inspires the current crop of morons like Bin Laden and makes them think they can defeat the west. Without US counter-aid the Soviets wouldnt have made such a mess of Afghanistan and fundamental Islam would be much more of a peripheral issue. Also the fact the US and UK set up camps and trained and equipped Mujahideen with stuff like Stingers wasnt a clever idea - theyve used these in Chechnya and might well try and use them on the West.

Clinton wasnt much better, he practically flew the Mujahideen into Bosnia. (Well he told US AWACs planes patrolling the UN embargo to switch off their radars when Iranian jets full of mercinaries and weapons landed). That was a big mistake as large parts of central Bosnia are now riddled with these fundamentalists, they even issued Bin Laden with a Bosnian passport in the 1990s.

**Pablo** · 08/07/2004, 4:25 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

Maybe the US botched things a little, but the assistance they gave to Afghanistan and Bosnia in the face of appalling brutality by neighbours flexing their military muscle was, for me, amongst the few things we should thank them for. I appreciate that Bosnia was, to some extent, a cosmetic exercise that effectively carved up that country, but it was still better than leaving the Serbs and Croats to their own devices...

after 250,000 people were killed? if there was oil they'd have been in their years before that