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Thread: 2011 Promotion

  1. #1
    Reserves littlebray's Avatar
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    2011 Promotion

    My records can't establish who is entitled to the play-off for 1st Division entry. Are there really four teams with back matches to be played in Pool 1? That could affect Fanad's chances, of course! Nobody else there can finish 4th or above ... but do points count?

    But in Pool 2, Carlow seem the only ones (top 4) to have a chance of qualifying. But does goal difference matter?

    Can anyone quote rules????

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    The A Championship is being abolished, so no promotion/relegation play-off this year, all four non-League clubs can apply for First Division licences. No-one knows what rules the Licencing Committee will apply, beyond a vague report that only two will be choosen, so all four could be elected, or alternatively, they could all be shunted down to junior football. If the FAI are serious about promoting the game in the regions, the clubs will be given time, like Mervue, to meet the criteria, but either way, they'll all be in the dark until February.

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  4. #3
    Reserves littlebray's Avatar
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    Obviously it wouldn't bother the powers that be to change things in mid-stream. The fact that there won't be an A Championship next year is irrelevant (no offence). The rules of engagement of this year's A Championship entitled the top non-reserve team a play-off with the bottom 1st Div team, and as far as I know that still applies, unless there has been an official announcement to the contrary. Do Abbotstown want to go to the 4 Gold Mines again by saying 'no play-offs this year'?

    Never mind the fact that 'rules' for Premier/First promotion and relegations in 2011 seem to be oozing out rather than released ...

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    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    To be honest I'd throw all 4 of them up there or at least 3. They wouldn't be any worse off than salthill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlebray View Post
    Obviously it wouldn't bother the powers that be to change things in mid-stream. The fact that there won't be an A Championship next year is irrelevant (no offence). The rules of engagement of this year's A Championship entitled the top non-reserve team a play-off with the bottom 1st Div team, and as far as I know that still applies, unless there has been an official announcement to the contrary. Do Abbotstown want to go to the 4 Gold Mines again by saying 'no play-offs this year'?

    Never mind the fact that 'rules' for Premier/First promotion and relegations in 2011 seem to be oozing out rather than released ...
    There wouldn't have been a play-off this season anyway. With the demise of Sporting Fingal, there are only 11 teams in the First Division, so at least one team should be promoted from the A Championship regardless.

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    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    The blame has to lie with the clubs who've played at this level: Cobh, Carlow, Tralee, Fanad, Castlebar and Tullamore. These clubs seem to have had the wrong approach. A manger of one of the lower Galway clubs criticised his players last year of having a Junior soccer mentality. I'd accuse these clubs of having the same Junior club mentality. The clubs don't seem to have lobbied for anything. They should have formed a technical group, the A Championship Board or something like that. Communication channels then should have been opened with the FAI so they discuss what they need but where the FAI would do likewise for what's required from the clubs.

    If Cobh, Carlow, Fanad and Tralee have applied to join the First Division, it seems they are interested in being involved in a national league. For clubs missing out, there's no reason why they can't continue to play in the A Championship. Remove the stipulation Premier clubs have to field a team. Secondly just have one division with the A Championship being played as a national division. I've given an example in another thread:

    Derry City A
    UCD A
    Shamrock Rovers A
    Finn Harps A
    Limerick A
    Tralee Dynamos?

    While unideal, 6 teams could play 20 games over 4 series. It'll be more than the 14 games this year. Progressive Premier & First Division clubs will have an optional level to field a reserve team. Aspiring clubs like Tralee and the like will have a level where they can look to build. In terms of promotion in such a scenario, a club would have to be the highest first team but also finish in the top third. In the above example, Tralee would have to finish in the top 2 to get a shot at a promotion/relegation play-off. I don't see the harm in going with it. There are a number of clubs needing to field a reserve team. Though small in numbers, there are aspiring clubs as well looking to be involved in the League of Ireland. The solution is one: a national A Championship division removing the stipulation Premier clubs have to field a team.
    A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
    Opportunity seems lost somewhere in between for new clubs/regions to become part of LoI family.

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    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Costs are the problem Legendz. If Harps had to travel to Limerick and Tralee to play a reserve game then they simply wouldn't. As it is they struggle to pay for the reserve and u-19 teams only travelling half the country, if they had to go the whole length of the country the club would simply go bust.

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    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    Ok, we'll have to leave out Harps but UCD A, Shamrock Rovers A, Limerick A, Carlow, Tralee and one more be it Castlebar or Tullamore returning with the league secure or another reserve club. If the logistics don't add up I accept is not a possibility but if some clubs want it, it can happen. While 6 is unideal, it is the minimum number that can allow the A Championship continue in some form. If Tralee were guaranteed a place in the First Division I probably wouldn't be too bothered by this but as the chance for a club from Kerry to be involved is under threat, I want the A Championship to remain so we at least have some level within the League of Ireland structures. Some have a problem with it but I don't see anything wrong with it.
    A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
    Opportunity seems lost somewhere in between for new clubs/regions to become part of LoI family.

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    As you mentioned in the other threads, it's most important that the four clubs pool their efforts first and foremost to ensure they're all playing in the First Division come March, going back to the A Championship will only muddy the water unless every other appeal is rejected. Once they're all accommodated however, then the pyramid structure is needed, first making a Conference-style division from the best of the Leinster, Connacht, Ulster and Munster Senior Leagues, before connecting this to the county leagues.

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    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    The thing is though, every club can't be accommodated in the Premier & First, 12 in each would be the most. Pyramid structures is generally Spudulika's call, I'm not sure it's possible. The A Championship seemed to be the best compromise. Some clubs will need a reserve league, mix them with progressive Intermediate/Junior clubs.
    A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
    Opportunity seems lost somewhere in between for new clubs/regions to become part of LoI family.

  12. #11
    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Out of interest legendz, what kind of crowds have Tralee been getting in the A championship?

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    Seasoned Pro Sam_Heggy's Avatar
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    The Junior sides in the A League have no idea what it takes to run a club in the 1st Division. If they did, they wouldn't even think about entering.

    You need around 100k to run a club in the first Div at minimum, compared to around 20k (pretty heafty figure at that too) in the A League.

    Donegal can not and will not sustain 2 Senior LOI sides. Sure Harps are on the brink as it is, never mind a second club coming in.

    They are a side based in a rural (extremely rural) part of Donegal and will draw support from about 100 people at most.

    Im not sure about the other clubs but re:Fanad Joining the 1st Division, Im not sure how it can be considered a "good thing"

    Id love to see Cobh back up, if all the in-house stuff has been sorted.
    Last edited by Sam_Heggy; 05/09/2011 at 3:34 PM. Reason: spell check....

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  15. #13
    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    The attendances have been poor really. I don't think it's been much different with the rest of the clubs in the A league. It's better to have the A league than nothing though. The fact clubs from Mayo, Kerry, Offaly and Carlow joined, though small in numbers, shows there are regions who want to be involved. It's something the FAI need to consider with all the restructuring. Clubs can't be just told to get lost and apply some other time.
    I accept all points on travel for the likes of Harps. It's still possible with other clubs but I guess it's down to the clubs themselves to lobby and fight their own corner.
    A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
    Opportunity seems lost somewhere in between for new clubs/regions to become part of LoI family.

  16. #14
    Seasoned Pro legendz's Avatar
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    The U19 Southern Division is setting a precedent that a division can be run with 6 teams. While unideal, at least it gives clubs a level. It's down to the clubs themselves anyways, it's up to them to lobby for what the need.
    A Championship: 4 years - 8 first teams - 0 financially ruined. First Division '14: 7 first teams.
    Opportunity seems lost somewhere in between for new clubs/regions to become part of LoI family.

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