London Riots

**dancinpants** · 10/08/2011, 12:30 AM

Heres one from Birmingham. Showing recorded stuff at the mo but will be back live shortly:

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/sangat-tv

**Spudulika** · 10/08/2011, 4:21 AM

Originally Posted by dancinpants

You're assuming that Americans give a sh!t about whats happening in the rest of the world...I can assure you that they don't. The average American probably isn't even aware there is rioting in London.

The point made as that it's not being reported on the major International networks in a meaningful way, so if it's not reported on local - tree falling in forest etc. Of course they won't give a damn or have heard of it if it's not reported, returning to the question asked - is there a politically driven reason for it?

For the record in Russia it's being carried pretty widely, in the top 5 news items and this is a country where something like this has a potential to kick off, if the kind of scum seen on English streets weren't actually working for the government here - or too scared to do something like this.

If the English police start using tear gas and rubber bullets, how long will it be before the NATO bombing campaign to remove Cameron (back to Italy)?

**pineapple stu** · 10/08/2011, 7:50 AM

Originally Posted by SkStu

just something i thought worth mentioning. Since im home at the moment ive been watching a lot of CNN and other north american news stations. Their coverage of the London riots has been so muted its incredible. Usually they are all over stories of rioting/revolt a la Syria, Libya Egypt, Greece... but for London it has been near silent.

Reporting upheaval in "third world" countries is important to justify American regime change and their troops being places they shouldn't be. It helps keep up a negative stereotype of these places in American minds.

The US has no intention of invading England, and so doesn't need to portray that image. In fact, it probably helps not to show that the likes of Syria and England aren't as different you might think.

**Pauro 76** · 10/08/2011, 7:57 AM

Very calm in my area of north west London. Thank feck. Quit work for the day earlier after seeing wildfire tweets of a riot in Uxbridge. Shops shut early, but my thanks to the police for re-assuring the public and to Hillingdon council on social networks for dismissing the wildfire tweets and keeping the head whilst everyone was losing theirs.

**Spudulika** · 10/08/2011, 8:02 AM

A few things to think about which, after a check on news sources, haven't been joined up - but maybe it's 1+1=59

1. The British Police force is to shed numbers in a cost cutting/optimisation drive.
2. Complaints have been made about police knowing what was about to happen, when it was about to happen and this has been reported to the media in advance of outbreaks of violence (for example in Manchester yesterday).

Now, far be it from me to espouse a conspiracy theory - but since the attempt to put in place a less discerning ruling elite who would no longer block British and French interests in Libya, and the British security services exposure in Northern Ireland with "new threats" to keep their budgets high. Is there a chance that there is a certain joy in some quarters that the cities are in flames?

Agree with you Stu that the media in the US will not show their partner having street riots. It just doesn't fit their "paradigm".

Al Jazeera's reporting is interesting.

**Macy** · 10/08/2011, 10:04 AM

I think it's too easy to dismiss them as scumbags and thugs - there's clearly an underlying issue. Obviously it doesn't suit politicians to admit that, and the right wing media are happier just talking water cannon and rubber bullets and probably "bringing back the birch". If nothing else, just why do they have so little respect for society, the police and other peoples property? Truly Thatchers children/ grandchildren? I in no way condone what's happened just to be clear.

Secondly, London sucks in all the police resources and shock horror it kicks off around the rest of the England!?! For example, GMP were policing London, while Manchester and Salford was being sacked. No surprise that, judging what I heard this morning, that there is no danger of the effected areas getting their cops back, but sure once London is calm...

**Spudulika** · 10/08/2011, 11:35 AM

I read the article by Kevin Myers earlier and it was quite pointed, yet it's nothing that isn't known, but scarcely admitted. If anyone can remember when Brian Glanville was on PK Today a couple of years ago with PK and Des Cahill, there was a scandal about the Newcastle (I think) players roasting some girl. It was discussed and Glanville said - It cannot come as a surprise as many of these young men are victims of a culture where there is an absence of fathers, they're raised by single mothers, they don't have an education, suddenly they are wealthy and without control.

He was immediately cut off and the two Irish flubbered around trying to cast him as a racist. I was disgusted as, despite his faults, Glanville can be very good and is a decent man. He was 100% correct from a social commentary POV yet it didn't suit the pc brigade. Same again this time in England and there is a real undercurrent of illfeeling towards others. Until the issues are addressed openly there will be more and more of this behaviour. Seeing scum of all colours and religions rampaging through city streets is chilling, especially that there are some groups gleefully manipulating it.

Edit: More than 11,000 police have been laid off in England and Wales, by 2015 13,000 more will be cut. 4 of 8 youth centres in Clapham have been closed since last year.

**geysir** · 10/08/2011, 1:09 PM

Last night I heard on BBC R5, after the traffic report (congested areas to avoid) came the riot report (troubled areas to avoid).

**dancinpants** · 10/08/2011, 5:07 PM

Originally Posted by Spudulika

The point made as that it's not being reported on the major International networks in a meaningful way, so if it's not reported on local - tree falling in forest etc. Of course they won't give a damn or have heard of it if it's not reported, returning to the question asked - is there a politically driven reason for it?

But its right there, on CNN's front page, ABC News' front page, msnbc's front page, npr's front page, and its on Fox News' front page. Jesus, even my local news station have been reporting on it widely for the last few days. Its not the headline simply because the people here are more worried about the economy because , well, it's a bigger issue. And thats not even mentioning next years election.

Its being reported, theres lots of info on the internet if people have the interest to follow. They don't do so simply because they don't really care.

**Real ale Madrid** · 11/08/2011, 6:57 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

I think it's too easy to dismiss them as scumbags and thugs - there's clearly an underlying issue. Obviously it doesn't suit politicians to admit that, and the right wing media are happier just talking water cannon and rubber bullets and probably "bringing back the birch". If nothing else, just why do they have so little respect for society, the police and other peoples property? Truly Thatchers children/ grandchildren? I in no way condone what's happened just to be clear.

This man obviously seems angry - interesting the way the beeb dealt with him - by calling him a rioter.

**DannyInvincible** · 11/08/2011, 7:13 AM

Originally Posted by culloty82

Starting in Salford and Manchester city centre now - for reasons unknown, Miss Selfridge has become the target of choice tonight.

A girl I know found herself trapped inside Marks and Spencers in Piccadilly Gardens on Tuesday evening as a group masked and with bikes gathered outside before smashing up the front and ransacking the stock. Admittedly, she's not immune to hyperbole now and again, but she did say it was pretty terrifying and that she had to make a break for it out the door past them as they rushed in only for her to be met by a stationary line of police in riot gear with dogs outside.

Originally Posted by SkStu

just something i thought worth mentioning. Since im home at the moment ive been watching a lot of CNN and other north american news stations. Their coverage of the London riots has been so muted its incredible. Usually they are all over stories of rioting/revolt a la Syria, Libya Egypt, Greece... but for London it has been near silent.

Now, i know that the headline in the States at the moment is the credit rating downgrade but London is not even second or third story, it got a 3 minute segment this morning. Would it be beyond the realms of possibility that the States are frightened to give this too much coverage perhaps fearing that it might cause a similar rising up in areas of America? I could be way off, just a thought - im confined to home at the moment so my imagination may be getting the best of me!!!

You could well be right. God forbid, we'd have people thinking the Western model mightn't be working for everyone!

Originally Posted by dancinpants

You're assuming that Americans give a sh!t about whats happening in the rest of the world...I can assure you that they don't. The average American probably isn't even aware there is rioting in London.

I thought you were going to say that the average American isn't even aware of where London is. Not that there would be anything wrong with such a statement either.

**Straightstory** · 11/08/2011, 9:19 AM

Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

This man obviously seems angry - interesting the way the beeb dealt with him - by calling him a rioter.

Very funny. This is the well known 'Darcus Howe', commentator on black issues for many years. The BBC called him 'WRITER' not a 'RIOTER'.

**Straightstory** · 11/08/2011, 9:23 AM

...Although, possibly they intimated towards the end he might have enjoyed a riot in the past... 'Writer' AND 'Rioter'?

**bennocelt** · 11/08/2011, 2:11 PM

"Stopping and searching blacks for no reason at all" - wtf, remind me again how many young black men have died this year from gang violence?
Lack or real leadership from the black community, where are all their community activists? - and people are talking about this, peoples attitudes here are hardening

**hoops1** · 11/08/2011, 2:41 PM

This basically breaks down into two things for me Parental responsiblity and self respect.
The parents dont bring these kids to football,rugby,cricket,drama,dancing,art or any positive activities that would give the kids something to look forward to,structure in their lives, an outlet for lifes stresses. They dont give the kids a goal or a dream to aim at.
Why?
Because the parents themselves were never any good at anything or the parents dont percieve themselves to have ever been any good. So why should their children be.
The parents rather than guiding and directing their kids lives let friends, internet and social networking do it for them. The kids then have an view of the world given to them by people their own age and the internet. Parents only way of expressing love, or discipline is to buy the kids "stuff" clothes,jewlery and all the latest gadgets. They are not shown the values of respect, hard work or have any understandings of another humans feelings. What you end up with is the mess we see now.

**shakermaker1982** · 11/08/2011, 2:50 PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/au...l-right-parent

Interesting article.

**BonnieShels** · 11/08/2011, 3:09 PM

Mate was in Peckham earlier. Said there's cops everywhere.

**freewheel30** · 11/08/2011, 4:23 PM

The implication that Darcus Howe was a rioter was really just the icing on the cake - the questioner had been twisting his words and talking across him from the beginning. It's hard to really be sure if the newsreader's ignorance was the result of her own individual daftness or if the position she was pursuing is one that any of her colleagues would have pursued if they had found themselves in the same situation.

**bennocelt** · 11/08/2011, 5:28 PM

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/au...l-right-parent

Interesting article.

Agree with some of this but again the implication is that there is no opportunities for black people in London. Tell that to the Chinese, Indian, Pakistan and even the Irish communities here, amongst others?

**Macy** · 12/08/2011, 8:11 AM

Originally Posted by bennocelt

Agree with some of this but again the implication is that there is no opportunities for black people in London. Tell that to the Chinese, Indian, Pakistan and even the Irish communities here, amongst others?

Is it not that there's no opportunities for people from those estates? I thought it was quite balanced, to be honest.