US credit downgrade/General recession thread

**TiocfaidhArmani** · 10/08/2011, 7:54 AM

By 2021 the US will have $26 trillion debt. That's a crazy figure, the Chinese were right, there needs to be another currency in which oil is traded other than the dollar. If the US falls, so will the rest of the world. The Empire is crumbling and the Chinese know it.

**BonnieShels** · 10/08/2011, 2:15 PM

Well Saddam went about selling Iraqi oil in euro... I wonder what happened him?

**Spudulika** · 10/08/2011, 2:25 PM

Hey, good point Bonnie, I remember being in Saudi Arabia at the time and the Saudi's mouthing about joining the same model, they also said non-believer troops were no longer allowed to use sacred soil/sand. However unless the British and US armies converted en masse oto islam I have photos of British ships unloading at Jeddah port and of US trucks and troop carriers in convoys from Riyadh north east. Nobody will mess with the almighty dollar

**pineapple stu** · 10/08/2011, 2:31 PM

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Well Saddam went about selling Iraqi oil in euro... I wonder what happened him?

Iran too. Nothing to see there though.

**Spudulika** · 10/08/2011, 3:59 PM

Why is it that Iran is let be on its own for so long? I wonder is it because it's in better shape than Iraq, or it's needed to protect against the wrong type of islam spreading, or just that it's nice to have a bogeyman. Good point PS.

**thischarmingman** · 10/08/2011, 4:44 PM

Originally Posted by John83

I don't recommend it. You'll continue to be flotsam on the wave of forces beyond your ken, only you'll have learned that the highs and lows you're experiencing are mostly illusory, no less powerful for that, and even less well controlled than they are understood.

Sorry, are we talking about world economics or the League of Ireland...?

Originally Posted by Poor Student

TCM, I'd be like yourself, from a historical background, and I suppose like you I've come to realise recently I came out the other end of my education without any great understanding of economics. I've ended up in retail banking although to be honest my role wouldn't require any knowledge of economics. I've never read any books on the subject (even popular stuff), most of what I've picked up (and it is very basic) has come from the net and articles. On top of the stuff the other have recommended, I'd give the website The Property Pin (www.thepropertypin.com) a go. There's a good concentration of minds there from various backgrounds and across the range of political and economic thought (ranging from survivalist to socialist) and it's very much Irish orientated. A lot of it will go over your head when you see discussions of derivatives, credit default swaps etc. but there's a lot of info for the beginer too.

Cheers for that, let my education begin!

**pineapple stu** · 11/08/2011, 7:45 AM

On the main evening news last night that France could be next to be downgraded. French Government and the three ratings agencies all denying these rumours. No smoke without fire though?

This could be carnage.

**BonnieShels** · 11/08/2011, 9:35 AM

The irrational behaviour of the markets and governments' belief in their omnipotency is the real problem.

As was stated so eloquently yesterday, Italy have been running large budget deficits for 15 years, why is it a problem now?

**pineapple stu** · 11/08/2011, 9:50 AM

Everyone's getting twitchy. We're basically seeing a run on the world, I think. That can only end badly.

**BonnieShels** · 11/08/2011, 10:01 AM

Probably for the best. We need a purge.

**backstothewall** · 14/08/2011, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by TiocfaidhArmani

By 2021 the US will have $26 trillion debt. That's a crazy figure, the Chinese were right, there needs to be another currency in which oil is traded other than the dollar. If the US falls, so will the rest of the world. The Empire is crumbling and the Chinese know it.

The truth is the USA has no debt whatsoever. They put an awful lot of bonds out there, but they simply aren't worth the paper they are written on. They will simply print $26T. Lending money to a country in its own currency was nuts.

S&P downgrading America was idiotic in the extreme. All they did was **** of the Washington, which can't be smart.

The good news for us is that Obama will start printing a LOT of money very soon in an effort to get re-elected. The subsequent inflation that will be sparked by that will reduce how much we (and everybody else) owe in real terms.

**pineapple stu** · 14/08/2011, 4:53 PM

I think history has shown that rampant inflation isn't a good thing. For one, those with savings get them wiped out. For another thing, if you print $26,000,000,000,000, then I'd imagine inflation would be approaching pre-war European levels - in which case, you have to spend your money before it gets wiped out in value again. Inflation in Europe in the 20s led to starvation, utter poverty, violence, strikes and ultimately mass unemployment. Hardly "good news".

Also, why is something bad just because it annoys America?

**TiocfaidhArmani** · 15/08/2011, 7:58 AM

Originally Posted by backtowalsall

The truth is the USA has no debt whatsoever. They put an awful lot of bonds out there, but they simply aren't worth the paper they are written on. They will simply print $26T. Lending money to a country in its own currency was nuts.

I'm not expert but if the US printed $26 trillion would it not cause hyper-inflation?

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Iran too. Nothing to see there though.

And as Ron Paul said in the Republican primary debate last week in Iowa, it was the US who helped put those nutjobs in power in the first place!

**BonnieShels** · 15/08/2011, 2:58 PM

I still haven't received any confirmation of the RS ratios. God bless the DoE. I've re-sent the email today.

**Poor Student** · 15/08/2011, 5:11 PM

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

I still haven't received any confirmation of the RS ratios. God bless the DoE. I've re-sent the email today.

You've probably been blacklisted for asking as the truth will take the whole system down.

**BonnieShels** · 15/08/2011, 5:14 PM

Well then in that case... STFUDOE!!!!!!

I'm not actually surprised knowing what its like in my place.

**backstothewall** · 15/08/2011, 7:19 PM

Originally Posted by TiocfaidhArmani

I'm not expert but if the US printed $26 trillion would it not cause hyper-inflation?

Of course. Thats the point. If you cause hyper inflation is only bad if your owed money. If you owe somebody else its great. What you owe reduces in real terms. Its how they paid for Vietnam.

**pineapple stu** · 16/08/2011, 8:14 AM

Seriously - read up on hyperinflation. Please. Wiki for a basic start; something like Adam Fergusson's When Money Dies for a more detailed look. Hyperinflation is bad. The US did not experience hyperinflation during Vietnam, and so could not have used it to pay for the war.