US credit downgrade/General recession thread

[geysir]

This bit of news seems to have fallen under the radar
€126bn debt

'IRELAND's national debt was €126.4bn at the end of July
December 2010 the Government had guaranteed bank debts valued at €113bn
The Central Bank has provided €49.5bn to Ireland's distressed financial institutions´

I don't think those figures are an accurate account of the total guarantee and the amount of distress relief aid


'It also values the National Pension Reserve Fund (NPRF) at €22.7bn at the end of 2010 but the NPRF said this had since fallen even further to €20.8bn at the end of June this year. The fund has invested €11.4bn in AIB and Bank of Ireland as part of the bank rescue programme which was down €4bn at the end of 2010 and has since reduced to €5.3bn. The value of the shares it purchased in both banks has collapsed with AIB's share price down 67pc and Bank of Ireland's down 72pc at the end of July 2011'

AFAIU, that means €4bn has been written off already or is it €6bn?
Undeterred, Noonan has earmarked another further "investment" of €10bn from the NPRF into AIB and EBS.

[BonnieShels]

Italian town decides to secede from Italy.

http://www.rte.ie/news/av/2011/0922/media-3059970.html#

[legendz]

Read a report that Enda Kenny will not support a move by AIB to break the salary cap in place. Respect if they have taken that hard stance. FG and Kenny would've lost a lot of creditability.

[BonnieShels]

Yeah it was headline news up until lunchtime

[legendz]

Yeah it was headline news up until lunchtime

Was it yeah, too busy with work to be focussing on the lunchtime news.

[BonnieShels]

Was on a morning half day

[pineapple stu]

I still haven't received any confirmation of the RS ratios. God bless the DoE. I've re-sent the email today.

Did you ever get a reply on that?

I was reminded of it by the news that the Government are looking at the rent supplement in the upcoming budget -

It is understood the Government is hoping to generate [...] savings [...] from a substantial cut in the €500 million annual expenditure on rent supplements.

So I can only imagine that'll lead to rents falling, and further property price falls?

[culloty82]

So Greece is holding a bailout referendum - in the unlikely event that we ever held a similar vote, it would be easy to take the kneejerk option and vote no, but what would be the alternative to austerity? Wealth taxes and closing tax exile loopholes would only go partway to filling the shortfall, and Obama has had little to show to date for his job stimulus programme.

[pineapple stu]

And already, one firm has applied for bankruptcy protection after Greece's 50% write off.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if Greece reject the austerity in a referendum. In fact, it'd surprise me if they passed it. That'd surely just drag things down further again.

[Macy]

So Greece is holding a bailout referendum - in the unlikely event that we ever held a similar vote, it would be easy to take the kneejerk option and vote no, but what would be the alternative to austerity? Wealth taxes and closing tax exile loopholes would only go partway to filling the shortfall, and Obama has had little to show to date for his job stimulus programme.

Exit euro, default, IMF only deal. There's ultimately no escaping austerity, but they may be justified in feeling that the austerity will be over quicker. As we might have been.

Have to say the coverage of the Greek Governments decision is really irritating. Imagine them have the audacity of them actually asking the people who are going to have to suffer the proposed programme whether they want it or the alternative? Several euro countries were willing to bomb Libya under the pretence that they wanted democracy, and yet now Greece is under massive pressure not to defer to it's people. It was one of the big problems of our last Government, especially the Greens who were supposed to be different to FF, that they never went to the people over the bank guarantee, or the original austerity plan, or them calling in the IMF.

However, I think the timeline the Greeks have proposed is also a bit ridiculous. I wouldn't be surprised if the eurozone take the decision for them and cut them loose, if the mechanism exists for them to do so (I'm not sure it does).

[culloty82]

Papandreou was set to resign an hour ago, but now apparently isn't, while there may or may not be a national unity government formed in the coming hours - basically, it's like a repeat of Cowen's botched reshuffle day. A general election appears to be the likeliest solution to the chaos.

[pineapple stu]

Don't think I've ever heard a foreigner speak English in a Native American accent before. Sounds weird!

[pineapple stu]

Sky News now reporting the referendum has been scrapped. Greece had earlier been told to accept the bailout or leave the euro. The euro ain't going down without one hell of a battle.

[Dodge]

There's no clause for leaving the Eurozone, but they can leave the EU (which, of course, means leaving the eurozone too)

[Mr A]

Europe seriously needs to get its act together.

Specifically by all ganging together and invading Russia. The winter isn't far away, it's the last thing they'd expect.

[John83]

Europe seriously needs to get its act together.

Specifically by all ganging together and invading Russia. The winter isn't far away, it's the last thing they'd expect.

Definitely. No one's ever tried that before.

[Mr A]

Meh. Third time lucky.

[pineapple stu]

That is what so brilliant about it! We will catch the watchful Hun totally off guard! Doing precisely what we have done eighteen times before is exactly the last thing they'll expect us to do this time!

One step closer to a world where there's a Blackadder quote for every occasion.

[BonnieShels]

Papandreou was set to resign an hour ago, but now apparently isn't, while there may or may not be a national unity government formed in the coming hours - basically, it's like a repeat of Cowen's botched reshuffle day. A general election appears to be the likeliest solution to the chaos.

That was one of my favourite days' ever. It was a car crash from start to finish. *sigh*

Was gonna go to bed early tonight but VB is gonna be a good un.

I still haven't received any confirmation of the RS ratios. God bless the DoE. I've re-sent the email today.

Did you ever get a reply on that?

Well, completely forgot to get back on here to tell you my response.

I sent a third email basically outlining how ridiculous it is that the DOE could ignore my query when I know that I would get into s1it for doing the exact same thing AND they are my ultimate boss (I work for a local authority).

Almost straight away (within a day or two), I received an acknowledgement for all my emails at once and then I was told someone will be onto me with an answer.

Two days after this I received an answer which went something a little like this...

"Thank you for your query. The DOEHLG do not administer RS so do not have the appropriate figures. Please contact the Department of Free Money (Social Protection).

Now, to be pedantic, the DSP didn't administer RS at the time of my email. They do now, but the HSE did then.

Anyway, the reason they were queried on the question was because I thought (wrongly) that all the RAS and RS and housing waiting list stats that we emailed into the DOEHLG on a regular basis went towards the creation of an overall picture and helped to formulate and guide social and housing policy. They should have the figures.

I give up.

[dahamsta]

That's what they want you to do.