SPA Players Unhappy

**Macy** · 04/08/2011, 1:37 PM

The PFAI come out of this incredibly poorly, from an IR point of view, imo. How can any club/ employer go into negotiations in good faith when all these tweets are flying around?

**harleyleeds** · 04/08/2011, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by marinobohs

The "incentive" is they get paid and keep their job

. Its quite a popular incentive scheme outside football as well I believe. Players (along with anyone else) are entitled to negotiate a bonus for success and/orincreased efficency/productivity but the manner in which they went about it in this case is completely unacceptable.

again agree about the manner and the bonus should have been negotiated before any games but would you have used the first part including the eye rolling 3-4 years ago . no . btw what else could they have done, played the game lost and then asked for money?

**DannyInvincible** · 04/08/2011, 1:41 PM

Originally Posted by harleyleeds

only because it agrees with your point but i agree that the timing is bad however if you want future performance treat your players fairly . How can these players be expected to perform in the league after this.

In the space of six minutes, you somehow managed to miss the point again.

**Dodge** · 04/08/2011, 1:42 PM

I really don't know what people who don't support LOI teams do with their time, energy and money

**Mr A** · 04/08/2011, 1:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

I really don't know what people who don't support LOI teams do with their time, energy and money

Simple.

They waste them!

**harleyleeds** · 04/08/2011, 1:46 PM

please enlighten me danny i see several points just not yours

**Bunny Kelly** · 04/08/2011, 1:50 PM

Are these 'bonuses' not to compensate the players for loss of earnings? These are part time players, & playing away in Europe isn't a case of skipping out of work early an hour or two early, they need to days off for these trips so are at a loss if they are not taken care of by their club

**Eminence Grise** · 04/08/2011, 1:51 PM

Unseen first draft of the players statement...

STATEMENT FROM THE PLAYERS OF ST PATRICK�S ATHLETIC FOOTBALL CLUB
Following discussions between our reprehensible Everyone�s Against-us of the PFO, Fran Gavin of the FAI, and a club official, we can confirm that we have forced an agreement this afternoon with the club in relation to our demands.

We never expected Moany Mahon to get us as far as he did, and we would like to thank our club�s fans for not stoning us during this dispute. We have never lost focus on tonight�s game and are very much looking forward to lining our pockets after this evening�s encounter with FC Karpaty Lviv whatever the result.
END (OF OUR CREDIBILITY & TRUSTWORTHINESS)

So, so sorry for Pat's fans. You deserve to be represented by better than this self-serving shower of snakes in the grass.

**El-Pietro** · 04/08/2011, 1:51 PM

they were happy with the amount received in the first round, but felt they deserved more for the following rounds? surely if it was enough to cover loss of earnings in the first round it should be plenty from then on. they don't need more than double for each round after that do they

**DannyInvincible** · 04/08/2011, 1:56 PM

BBC story about it here confirming the game will go ahead, but nothing much new in it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/14400995.stm

Originally Posted by harleyleeds

please enlighten me danny i see several points just not yours

The players are under contractual obligation. To my understanding, playing in Europe is part and parcel of their regular job; it's not over-time or bonus hours or whatever. Even so, St. Pat's, in acknowledgement of the players loss of earnings and holiday time, appeared willing to offer voluntary bonuses. The players were previously willing to accept these. The players were bang out of order in the manner they then went about holding the club to ransom on later bonus payments for this round.

**ciar�g eile** · 04/08/2011, 2:05 PM

Hopefully this has all been an elaborate ploy to disrupt Lviv's mental preparation for the game...

**harleyleeds** · 04/08/2011, 2:09 PM

please enlighten me danny i see several points just not yours
The players are under contractual obligation. To my understanding, playing in Europe is part and parcel of their regular job; it's not over-time or bonus hours or whatever. Even so, St. Pat's, in acknowledgement of the players loss of earnings and holiday time, appeared willing to offer voluntary bonuses. The players were previously willing to accept these. The players were bang out of order in the manner they then went about holding the club to ransom on later bonus payments for this round.

Originally Posted by marinobohs

The "incentive" is they get paid and keep their job

. Its quite a popular incentive scheme outside football as well I believe. Players (along with anyone else) are entitled to negotiate a bonus for success and/orincreased efficency/productivity but the manner in which they went about it in this case is completely unacceptable.
again agree about the manner and the bonus should have been negotiated before any games but would you have used the first part including the eye rolling 3-4 years ago . no . btw what else could they have done, played the game lost and then asked for money?

europe is not part of their reg job they have to leave their country to do this. you want them to compete with other leagues but treat them like part timers . yes the contracts may say one thing but in the interest of promoting a winning attitude the club should pass on some of the winnings/earnings.

**DannyInvincible** · 04/08/2011, 2:14 PM

Originally Posted by harleyleeds

europe is not part of their reg job they have to leave their country to do this. you want them to compete with other leagues but treat them like part timers . yes the contracts may say one thing but in the interest of promoting a winning attitude the club should pass on some of the winnings/earnings.

And wasn't it doing that?

**WoodquayBoy** · 04/08/2011, 2:15 PM

Jesus wept man - if you are a rep, for example, part of your regular job could be visiting clients in Belfast or Derry. If you work high-up in one of the multi-nationals here in Galway, you will invariably end up travelling to HQ in the States for meetings. In both examples, from extreme ends of the spectrum, people are required to leave the Republic of Ireland. As part of their regular job.

**Fester** · 04/08/2011, 2:16 PM

Originally Posted by El-Pietro

they were happy with the amount received in the first round, but felt they deserved more for the following rounds? surely if it was enough to cover loss of earnings in the first round it should be plenty from then on. they don't need more than double for each round after that do they

The players had to take extra days off to travel to outer Kazakhstan, so it would not have compensated.

**Ezeikial** · 04/08/2011, 2:26 PM

Originally Posted by harleyleeds

europe is not part of their reg job they have to leave their country to do this.

Are you on a wind-up?

You may not realise it but when a club qualifies for European competition they actually have to leave the country to play. Of course it's part of their contracted commitment.

They also have to leave "their country" to play in Derry - perhaps you advocate they get additional compensation for this?

Originally Posted by harleyleeds

you want them to compete with other leagues but treat them like part timers .

The delicious irony is that the red herring of "out of pocket expenses" is precisely because they are part time.

Originally Posted by harleyleeds

yes the contracts may say one thing but in the interest of promoting a winning attitude the club should pass on some of the winnings/earnings.

You already acknowledged that St Pats were doing this (�7,500 for first leg and apparently same offered for subsequent rounds)

**marinobohs** · 04/08/2011, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by harleyleeds

again agree about the manner and the bonus should have been negotiated before any games but would you have used the first part including the eye rolling 3-4 years ago . no . btw what else could they have done, played the game lost and then asked for money?

Doubt they would have settled for such "miserly" amounts 3-4 years ago so that point is irellevent (and close to bizarre - people did not automatically indulge in industrial action 3-4 years ago as a first instance any more than they do now).
Believe it or not this is not the first dispute between an employer and employee(s) and there is legislation around the whole issue. There is also case law concerning illegal (often called unofficial) action.

I look forward to your post calling on Bohs players to be deducted pay following our "efforts" in Europe in recent years and its impact on the club

**WoodquayBoy** · 04/08/2011, 2:33 PM

Originally Posted by marinobohs

.
I look forward to your post calling on Bohs players to be deducted pay following our "efforts" in Europe in recent years and its impact on the club

In fairness, if he did, it would be his first sensible post on this thread ;-)

**Dodge** · 04/08/2011, 2:35 PM

it really is amazing how many people have simply no idea how LOI football works.

Not everyone of course. Some excelelnt posters here.

Some absolute thicks too

**harleyleeds** · 04/08/2011, 2:40 PM

Originally Posted by Ezeikial

Are you on a wind-up?

You may not realise it but when a club qualifies for European competition they actually have to leave the country to play. Of course it's part of their contracted commitment.

They also have to leave "their country" to play in Derry - perhaps you advocate they get additional compensation for this?

The delicious irony is that the red herring of "out of pocket expenses" is precisely because they are part time.

You already acknowledged that St Pats were doing this (€7,500 for first leg and apparently same offered for subsequent rounds)

whatever you want zek I think they deserve better . Derry really good comparisson. point about part time is that you advocate skimping on their pay but expect them to be as good as full time foreign teams (Derry excepted) . Anyway dont care anymore as Rovers are on today so ill watch that and you concentrate on wheither or not Pats players deserve to be nailed to the cross and next time your in europe hopefully this issue will be written into the contracts
.
good luck to Pats today hope ye do win and go through.