I'd rather O'Shea and Dunne centre halves. Foley and Ward the full backs.Originally Posted by Philly
With Sledge out for the Russia game, who will fill in? O'Dea at CB again? I'm not sure what to think about that one.
I'd rather O'Shea and Dunne centre halves. Foley and Ward the full backs.
"We lost because we didn't win"- Ronaldo
Depressing stuff tonight, same old with our inability to beat any halfway decent team home or away.
Given - 5. Did what he had to do (which wasn't very much) well bar the one brainfart that could have gifted them a goal.
O'Shea - 4. Looked really off the pace, which in fairness to him he probably was. Got forward well although his crosses came to nothing for obvious reasons.
Dunne - 6. Strong throughout though worryingly done for pace in the second half.
St Ledger - 8. Started off poorly but really grew into the game, that block in the second half was beastly.
Ward - 2. Awful positioning, poor composure on the ball and his wayward marking seemed to not only ruin his game but McGeadys as well having to cover his ass. McGeady bailing him successfully and repeatedly was also a potential reason for Traps reluctance to bring Hunt on.
Whelan - 4. Just seems to ghost in and out of the game as per usual, some decent tackling, nothing positive in terms of possession play.
Andrews - 4. Awful for the first 60 minutes, just dire. But he seems to be a different player when the pace and tempo lifts like he was away to France, was everywhere and a serious threat and presence towards the end. Since we don't usually play with that intensity he probably shouldn't be playing for us.
McGeady - 5. Bizarre night in the sense his most positive contributions were defensively. Bailed the woeful Ward out time and time again which really stifled his attacking game where when it got going was lacking. Probably wasn't 100% so can be excused.
Duff - 9. Top notch player and ran the show, seemed like the only man in green with half a brain for much the game. Perfect crosses for both Keane and Dunne should have been goals barring poor aerial play from the two, add in a selfish Cox and a deflection and Duff could have been responsible for 4 goals here. Was literally part of everything positive we did, I'd despair playing a game without him.
Doyle - 4. Petulant performance filled with a lot of small, needless fouls. Worked hard as ever but no end product from him tonight, Slovakian defence had his number on this occasion.
Keane - 4. Keane lives and breathes on doing nothing for 90 minutes and popping up to clinically score the winner, he almost had it again tonight but wasn't to be. Hard to blame him when his midfield only created 1 clear cut chance for him.
Cox - 2. Selfish on two occasions spurning chances, his half hour won't have done him any favours tonight.
I said it before but what really puzzles me was how the gameplan appears to be whipping high balls into the opposition boxes over and over again. How exactly is that supposed to work when none of our strikers are especially good at scoring in the air? Doyle wasn't even in the box a whole lot so they were mostly aimed at keane which is just confusing. Its been a prominent strategy throughout the campaign and I can't think of any stage when its ever actually worked. Was so many groans tonight everytime O'Shea and Ward especially would overlap only to rain in some high ball for the Slovakians to comfortably clear.
Given 7 : Not troubled
O'Shea 6 : Sluggish all night and passing was poor
Dunne 6 : Caught idling with ball too much. Missed big chance at the death.
St. Leger 8 : Kept it simple all night. Epic block in 2nd half. Will be missed in Moscow.
Ward 6 : Not positive enough in attack.
Duff 7 : Our brightest spark. Was being doubled up on a still was always a theat.
Whelan 4 : Slow, didn't get on the ball enough. Out of his depth.
Andrews 3 : Gave the ball away constantly. Not good enough.
McGeady 5 : Mixed the good with the bad. Same problems he has had all his career. He doesn't strike the ball well. Didn't lack for effort.
Doyle 4 : Worst game I've seen him play for Ireland. Nothing stuck and was 2nd for the ball too often.
Keane 5 : Offers very little in open play. Missed the best chance of the night.
Subs
Cox 5 : Didn't add any spark when he came on
Hunt 7 : His mad hair lifted the crowd. Got on the ball and caused some problems.
Yeah man, they call gambling a disease, but it's the only disease where you can win a bunch of money.
I will never attend an international again while that relic is in charge.
Utterly incompetent tactics, inept substitutions, static and disjointed - Ireland deserved to lose.
Awful.
People who, after a week's work, go out of their way to get to a game hundreds of kilometeres away, pay at least the price of three LOI matches to get in, hike up through 6 flights of steps, watch a depressingly defeatist side play out a dire nil-all draw and trudge home again.Just one thing though; who the **** boos the team? Jesus.
Those people would be insane not to boo.
A disgrace - the worst thing is that the likes of Brady, Giles, McGrath and Roy Keane are all still alive to see it.
Boooooo!!!!!
If all three teams finish on the same number of points, they're distinguished by way of a sort of mini table of three.
If, for the sake of argument, all teams were on the same number of overall points right now and the group had already concluded, Slovakia would be top with 5 points from their win over Russia and two draws against us, Russia would have 3 points from their win against us and we'd have 2 from our two draws against Slovakia so we'd finish third. If we were to finish on an even number of overall points with just Slovakia, however, we'd finish ahead of them as we'd both have two points from our games against one another but as we scored an away goal in Slovakia, that would favour us.
To be fair you could stick Pep, Ferguson or Klinsmann in charge of them and theres only so much they'd be able to do with guys like Ward, Andrews and Whelan. I've yet to hear a convincing attacking gameplan a side can play with no target man and two central midfielders who don't like the ball. The fundamental problems I'm convinced is down to the players, it was incredible the number of times Ward, Andrews and McGeady would fail to retain possession tonight. The wayward passes, poor decisions and lack of confidence in attack are down to individuals.
There are problems in our attack coaching and our incessant crossing is one of those, McGeady being allowed take free kicks is another. I don't know why Trap keeps thinking thats a good idea. On the contrary our defence is well organised, defensive set pieces drills are to perfection. Six clean sheets in a row is smashing stuff and a direct product of Traps coaching, Of course as we saw thats not good enough but I'd still be more liable to label blame with certain players being especially **** rather than the manager.
That was dissapointing. Sucked the air right out of the Irish Pub I was in it did.
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
A disgrace - the worst thing is that the likes of Brady, Giles, McGrath and Roy Keane are all still alive to see it.
Yes, you're right. We should kill them.
I don't buy it.
I've seen Salthill Devon play a more competent passing game in the middle of the park twice this year than Ireland did tonight.
Trap takes to the field with a 6-man defence - the two deep lying midfielders are played purely as a shield - I refuse to believe that they are unable to play a more mobile, progressive game than that.
The full backs were so static - never looking for an overlap, never, going very far beyond the halfway line.
That's coaching - not sh1te players.
Hunt to start on tuesday? If only for his better set pieces. Duff was good but I think people are overrating him. He's desperately one footed and predictably cuts in 9 times out of ten. Ward was very poor. Cox made the right decision to shoot but should have hit target. Sledge great, should be in prem. McGeady not helped by system which completely isolates him and doesnt play to his strengths. Centre midfielders did what theyre in the team to do- pity it's so desperately dull.
The games at the beginning of the summer seem a long long time ago.
Just back and absolutely gutted. I defend this team to the end, but that was awful tonight. Yet another opportunity missed, why can't we take the bull by the horns and beat these teams at home, it really is the difference between qualification and not.
Given, oshea and particularly didn't look fit. Maybe mcgeady too who frankly was anonymous 2n. Hunt shouldve been on much earlier.
We started so well, some great passing and then for about the next 70 mins, we were dominated. Slovakia shouldve scored and were the better team in large patches.
Despite been so poor, we couldve sneaked it at the end. Keane, Cox and dunne all had good chances.
Unfortunately its all to do now and we really are up against it. We could do with both results going our way on tues, a draw in moscow and a draw in slovakia would be fantastic.
Just to remind you on that I tipped Hungary to beat SwedenPity we didn't get the 3 points as we would have been fancied to get the best 2nd spot. But it's not over until it's over. Now we will be more of a loose cannon in Russia rather than satisfied with a draw.
Slovakia played well and we had so many players struggling to string a pass. St Ledger who most everybody is praising for his sterling defense duties, was poor with the ball at his feet, O'Shea was hardly better than awkward, McGeady ran out steam mid 2nd half and should have been replaced on the hour by Hunt. Hunt's contribution after his late introduction is being overegged, Doyle was lost throughout. Given's kick outs were often desperately poor. On the plus side - Ward did okay on his competitive debut considering the rest of the disfunction, McGeady did sterling work defending Ward's flank, both he and Duff stood out with defensive duties.
In the last minute of injury time in the Russia Macedonia game, the Macedonian goalie threw the ball to the LB, who went on a run retaining the ball, some interaction and set up a gilt edge last chance for them, whereas we just lump it time and time again in those last 15 minutes.
At the core of the disfunction is centre midfield and that had nothing to do with caution, just inadequate ability to do the bits that Trap gives them full license to do
Hard to believe we could have won that game.
Traps hopes of a new contract could be gone by tuesday night. Can't lose 2n. We were just too negative 2n. No overlaps from the full backs, no creativity. The slovaks set out their stall and bar some long balls at the end, there wasn't much we could do about it. In fact once they realised this, it was they who bossed us.
Playing away from home does suit our style and I can only pray that it works next tues.
There are plenty of lads in the LOI that could do the job Whelan and Andrews do.
I'm starting to think I could do it myself.
I find it very easy to believe they're unable to play a more progressive game than that. Keep in mind Andrews is a guy that has been shipped off to the championship because he couldn't cut it in the premier league, Whelan will likely meet the same fate with Stoke shelling out 6m to replace him. They play the exact same limited game for their clubs.
The fullbacks did try to overlap all night which was several times almost catastrophic as our ball retention is so poor anytime a defender joined the attack you could be pretty certain we'd give the ball away and have ourselves caught out on the counter, was the same sending centre backs up for corners. Just total kamikaze doing that any more than we were with such bad ball retention. Although again bear in mind O'Shea was always a notably static Full back for Man United as well, he was there purely for defence. Ward like Whelan and Andrews is a championship quality player and yet another in the "high effort, low talent" category we seem to possess in abundance.
I'm not saying trap couldn't do better but those 3 in particular are undeniably **** players on the ball which I think is the bigger problem here.
There was one point in the second half Andrews in possession with a man closing him down either side looked visibly terrified he might actually have to play some football to get out of that situation, so much so he just ran it straight into touch.
Some possible ramifications assuming we take 6 from our last two because we can't afford anything else really...
If we beat Russia, Slovakia beat Russia and win their other two games, with Russia winning only their other remaining game against Andorra, the table will finish as follows:
Irel. | 23
Slo. | 23
Rus. | 19
If we lose to Russia, Slovakia lose to Russia but win their other two games and Russia also win their other remaining game against Andorra, the table will finish as follows:
Rus. | 25
Irel. | 20
Slo. | 20
If we draw against Russia, Slovakia draw against Russia but win their other two games and Russia win their other game, the table will finish as follows:
Slo. | 21
Rus. | 21
Irel. | 21
If we beat Russia, Slovakia lose to Russia but win their other two and Russia win their other game, the table will finish as follows:
Irel. | 23
Rus. | 22
Slo. | 20
If we draw with Russia, Slovakia win their remaining three and Russia beat Andorra, the table will finish as follows:
Slo. | 23
Irel. | 21
Rus. | 20
This is what I think will happen, being optimistic. I think we'll draw in Russia, win our final two, Slovakia and Russia will draw, Russia will win their other remaining game and Slovakia drop two points against either Armenia or Macedonia. That would leave the table as follows:
Rus. | 21
Irel. | 21
Slo. | 19
I think my calculations are correct and there are plenty of other possible scenarios, but really, we can't afford to lose to Russia. I'm sure there's an easier way of working all possible scenarios out by drawing up some sort of graph or matrix? Any competent mathematicians out there?
We're currently the third-best second-placed team, by the way.
9 points against the "top" teams in our group and we've only taken 2. Even if we make a miracle in Moscow and win there we'll only have 5 points from 12, its not really good enough and now you have to start to question some of the squad selection. Keogh was never going to offer anything, at least Walters on the bench could have held the ball up had he been brought on for Doyle. Doyle, Keane and Cox are all a bit too similar and we needed power (Walters) or pace (maybe Best) to mix things up in attack as the Slovak defence had an easy time of it. Might have been different if Long had been playing? Is he out for Russia too or was it just a bump ?
No Sledge for the Russia game is a blow, but they'll be missing Denisov (who holds the midfield) and of course Akinfeev has been replaced by Malafeev (who's even worse than the CSKA man) - we have a chance to nick a point and then hope other results play out for us. Can we change the squad at all before Tuesday ? I'd be tempted to call up Joey O'Brien, he's been doing well for West Ham and could play on the flank instead of Ward if we shift O'Shea into the center for Sledge.
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