Preliminary Draw of the 2014 FIFA World Cup Brazil

[Gather round]

God yeah; Jackie Fullerton didn't half go on about that right through the '90s. I think they beat them twice in qualifying for UEFA '84 though. Did they beat them in World Cup qualifying as well at some point?

Think yourself lucky ye missed his wittering in the 80s

Yes, we did the double over Germany in Euro 84 qualifying. Since then, the best is a draw away in WC 98 (when they were reigning Euro champions).

Since Euro 84, the Germans have played 95 WC and EC qualifiers, losing only six. Czechia (08), England (02), Turkey (00), Bulgaria (96), Wales (92), Portugal (86).

[pineapple stu]

Did they beat them in World Cup qualifying as well at some point?

Good spot on the North doing the double. Wiki has them recording two World Cup qualifying losses - at home v Portugal in 1986 and of course, England's 5-1 win in Munich in 2002. In the Euros, they lost away to Wales in 1992, away to Bulgaria in 1996, away to Turkey in 2000 and at home to the Czechs in 2008.

They're still going to qualify though. I think Germans get off on that kind of efficiency; it's not mundane at all for them.

[Closed Account 2]

I remember us beating the Germans 2-0 out in Stuttgart before USA94, think these pictures are from that game:

http://www.sportsfile.com/more-images/9405001/

Last time we played them in Stuttgart we lost 1-0, they scored with a free kick that deflected off Robbie Keane. We played pretty well (one of the few times we did competitivly under Stan). We drew the return 0-0 in October 2007, but the Germans only really needed to draw that.

[paul_oshea]

Bierhoff thinks we are beatable:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...301684962.html

[pineapple stu]

With the important line that the fixtures meeting is tentatively scheduled for next month.

[Crosby87]

Germany - lost 3 qualifiers in the last 76 I heard someplace. I'd say they are quaking in their boots facing Whelan and Andrews.

Doesn't really matter what their record has been or what they are thinking tbh. Whelan and Andrews are Irish. Iniesta and Messi are not suddenly showing up to don the Green. Upsets happen in sports all the time. We might as well embrace that.

[OwlsFan]

I remember us beating the Germans 2-0 out in Stuttgart before USA94, think these pictures are from that game:

http://www.sportsfile.com/more-images/9405001/

I wonder would anyone purchase the picture showing the back of wur Jack's head Thanks for the link. At one stage we were great at getting friendly wins against top opposition away from home. Still waiting for the win away to a 2nd seed or better in a competitive game..

[Junior]

France 1-0...oh it doesnt matter.....

[Kingdom]

Very little difference between us Sweden and Austria. I watched the Austria v Germany game and it was even Stephen stuff. Could have gone either way. I still believe we are the most likely to take points off of Germany. Holland hammered Sweden 4-1. Lets hope we keep improving. That is going to be the key.

the fact that Austria can raise their game to that level (even once off) should be a warning to guard against complacency, Austria was the downfall of the last great era we had, and while this era was expected to be our golden era and didn't quite pan out that way, I'd hate for Austria to be their downfall this time too.

Not sure why you think that. I think it's being realistic. I'd have them as certs to qualify automatically for Euro 2012 as best runner-up throughout all the groups. They've won all their six games so far in that group, bar a loss to Holland in Amsterdam. They beat Finland 5-0 in their last group game in June. Their World Cup qualification record is also much more impressive than ours. They've qualified for nearly four times as many finals as we have; 11 finals to our 3.

Sweden are one of those teams that when you think of having to play them, you're not too bothered, it's only when you actually examine them and their record that you think, "well, actually, that's not so nice after all". Their were much nicer second seeds to draw, the Turks included.

Going by the UEFA coefficient rankings and the FIFA rankings of UEFA teams, our group has the 'hardest' top 3 teams and the second 'hardest' top 2 teams (Group I with Spain/France having the 'toughest' 2 teams in a group). Basically it's just about as tough as it can get. As has been pointed out above, Sweden are currently enjoying some great form. Hopefully some players are soon to retire/drop off and we can nail that playoff spot (or better ).

I think we drew the short straw in nearly all the pots to be honest. I wouldn't underestimate just how much effort Kerr is going to put in to trying to do us over there and put a spanner in our works over here. I base that on the pure hatred between him and Delaney, the bad feeling between him and some of the players, given how he felt some of them let him down, and purely because as 5th seeds they'd have been praying for someone like Andorra in order to get a few extra co-efficient points to try and consolidate the 5th pot slot.

It must be remembered that only the eight best runners-up throughout all the groups qualify for the play-offs. Even if we do manage second position, that alone won't guarantee a play-off place.

If we're to finish second (either good way or bad way) I think we'll be safe. Group A is a disgustingly tight group - I'm not sure I've seen as bad a group in my time - and I think that will be a record low points winning group, and consequently a low second spot total. Belgium, as fourth seeds (we avoided thankfully - one of a couple of bright spots to the draw) have as much right as the other three to look at winning the group. Englands group as well could have a really low second total. So I think we'll be fine in that regard.

Some people on here will make every team we play against sound like the best team ever, turn average players into Pele (Pandev) or complain about everything Trap does.
I think the real issue will come down to if we make Euro or not. Team will need to regroup quick after Euro if we make it and get focused.
And of course the other conversation is, if we do not make Euro and Trap moves on, who the hell will the manager be? It will be like starting over again. But at least we will know one way or the other in Sept. Is it fair to assume that if we make Euro and Trap retires that Tardelli will be the man and it will offer some continuity?

It's not that people try and make out players or teams are better than they are - it's about evaluating realistically what is before us. You did see the fool that Pele (as you call him above) made of Richie Dunne in the lead up to the Mace goal in Lansdowne yeah? he made him look like Dodi Weir.
Given the draw I think the Euro's are irrelevant in how we'll approach the group. If we make the Euro's as you rightly point out, there more than likely will be continuity with the management team and philosophy, while if we don't we'll have eleven months and probably 7 matches for a new manager to settle on a squad and style.
The retiree's are probably going to be the same regardless if we qualify for Polkraine or not.
What I do think is that had we an easier draw then I'd say where it would have made a difference is the squad mentality in the remainder of this campaign whereby players could be forgiven for thinking that
"yes, if we make the big push against Rus and Slo and qualify, then we head into the WC knowing that we can realistically regard ourselves as joint favs to qualify for Brazil, and emulate the class of 88/90 in going for 2 in-a-row"

[Kingdom]

I can't find any info about whether or not the playoffs will be seeded. I'm sure fifa will adjust things to their liking if need be.

I don't know if anything has been announced, but there's not a hope in hell that FIFA will leave Spain/France or say Portugal to chance and drawing each other in the event that another big seed like Portugal came second. The play-off's will be seeded. Hopefully it will work in our favour this time, if we were to continue to get positive results in the main, home and away, then we should be alright. That's a lot of if's though, accepted.

The draw is ok, I think we can aim for second. Germany are a pain because they are the best 1st seed in terms of grinding out results. By that I mean that even if we were to somehow get 2 draws or a win and a defeat against them, the Germans are very unlikely to slip up against the Swedes, Austrians (they actually just beat them in Vienna a few weeks ago, 2-1 out played at times but like a typical German they still won) and there is no chance the Germans will drop points in Kazakhstan or the Faroe Islands. Müller is also a sensational player, if he was Spanish people on here would be creaming themselves about him - I still think the Germans would have won in Durban if he hadnt been suspended. The Germans are very very slick, in Durban the Australians created a few chances against them but were still punished 4-0. Russia played them in Dortmund in October 2009 and were sensational, hitting the post and bar (Dzagoev ran the show) but the Russians still lost.

I agree re:Germany. I think, and I'm sure they do too, that they could be well placed to take over Spain's mantle in a couple of years time. The ooze class all over the pitch, and to think that Ozil, Keidera, Muller, Schweinsteger et all will have a further 12 months and perhaps be European champs by the time we play them, should be enough to turn even the most positive persons undergarments brown.

I think had we drawn the Spanish or even the Dutch, we might have had a chance of them dropping one or two points against the other teams (as we will invariably do).

Yeah could go along with that.

Sweden really aren't all that good. They are well organised and can be a physical threat. But they have big weaknesses at the back, their best defenders are past it Mellburg (33) Majsterovic and Petter Hanson (both 34), their only reliable defender with a bit of pace is the lad at Genoa Grandquist. In midfield they have a lot of average ball winners, but a lack of creativity. Wilhelmsonn looked like a promising player but has utterly stagnated since he moved to the Middle East, Kallestrom is ok but not massivly creative, he's no Johnas Turn he's a bit of a poor man's Hackan Mild. There is a lot of hype about Albin Ekdal, but he's yet to play for them and he hasnt set the world alight in a very mundane Juventus side. They do have Ibrahimovic upfront and Elmander too, but these are both immobile strikers and if we can cut of the creativity they shouldnt be too much of a handfull, they've no real pace which is a good thing looking at our back line. I'd be more worried about Rosenburg or Markus Burg running at our center backs, but they've faced pacier attackers in the past and shut them out. We should be beating the Swedes at home and aiming for a draw away. They were lucky to get to Euro 2008, getting a 3-0 default in Copenhagen against the Danes after a mad home fan struck the ref, which caused the game to be abandoned. If the Danes had won that they would have finished ahead of Sweden and made it to Euro 2008. Northern Ireland beat the Swedes 2-1 in Windsor Park and drew 1-1 away. In WC2010 qualification they were beaten home and away by the Danes 1-0 home and away, drew 0-0 with Portugal home and away and drew 0-0 in Albania. People are saying their current form (in Euro2012s) good, to an extend that's true, but theyve yet to face their hardest away games (aside from in Holland where they went down 4-1), their remaining games are Hungary away, Finland away, Holland at home and San Marino away, I'll be surprised if they get more than 4-5 points from those.

Thanks for the Swedish insight. It makes me feel a little less worried. What I would point out where I think you're wrong is the reference to the Denmark game where the fan struck the ref. The reason he attacked the ref is that it was the last minute and Sweden had just been awarded a penalty to win the game after Christian Poulsen assaulted one of the Swedes in the box. So there was no chance of Denmark winning that one. And I'd also contend that they'll win all their remaining games, bar Holland.

Do people reckon this group is easier or tougher than our qualification group for Euro 2008, which also featured Germany? Fair enough, we didn't qualify then, but I think that group was tougher, albeit with an extra team. Sweden might be around the same level as the Czechs were then (or are they?), but I don't think Austria are as good as Slovakia would have been. They'd be more on a par with Cyprus (embarrassing 5-2 drubbing aside) or maybe Wales then. Would that be a fair assessment? Six points has to be the aim with Austria if we're to entertain any hope of qualification.

Great question. In my opinion that group was easier. It was the ineptitude on our sideline that undermined us, not the teams we faced. Alan O'Brien ftw!!!
The German team now are far superior. The home game then was a dead rubber.
Sweden and that Czech team are probably on a par, but the Swedes (at present) have a far better individual weapon in Zlatan.
People overrate Slovakia then and overrate Slovakia now. Sure, they've improved, but I That Slovakia team were not as good as they were made out to be and we should have beaten them in Brat just like we should have beaten them in Zilina. It remains to be seen just how good Austria will be, but again they're probably as good a fit for Slovakia 08.

Kazakhstan are ranked lower than the likes of Liechtenstein. They can't really pose a huge deal of threat, can they?

For some reason recently, and perhaps with some merit, arduous trips are faced with skepticism. What's annoying about drawing Kazakh instead of say Luxembourg, is that there's always the chance the trip will either bookend a season, or preceed a trip to Vienna or Stockholm or a similar home game. Plus our players seem to detest the long trips. That's what annoys me about drawing them - the associated problems that they cause.

[QUOTE=Supreme feet;1514187]

Robbie will be 32 by the time the campaign kicks off, which is the same age John Aldridge was at the start of the USA 94 qualifiers, in which he was our top scorer. Also, Dunne will be 33, same age as Paul McGrath at the start of the USA 94 campaign. Both McGrath and Moran (who was 36 when he started away to Denmark) played key roles in that campaign. Also, Kenny Cunningham was 33 at the start of the '06 qualifiers, when he was one of our outstanding players.

Football has changed immeasurably on the club scene since Aldo's day. This obviously has had an effect on int football. I dare say also, that Aldo, McGrath and Kenny (for other reasons) had far more to gain by staying on as int footballers, than Richie, Keano and maybe one or two others have.
I'm convinced we're all going to be in for a shock at the end of this campaign, obviously I hope I'm wrong, but i think there's a change coming.

With the likes of McCarthy, Meyler, Wilson, Clark, Coleman and Cunningham to come through, I think the Irish team will be in better shape in September 2012 than at present.

I agree there totally. There should be no repeat of the fall-out from Anfield 95. If there is it will be unacceptable. If we fail to qualify then changes should be swift and unsympathetic. That goes for the squad as much as the management team. Whatever pans out, the team should be able to hit the ground running in August 2012 regardless of retirees, fallouts or miscellaneous.

[mypost]

People overrate Slovakia then and overrate Slovakia now. Sure, they've improved, but I That Slovakia team were not as good as they were made out to be and we should have beaten them in Brat just like we should have beaten them in Zilina. It remains to be seen just how good Austria will be, but again they're probably as good a fit for Slovakia 08.

Slovakia 3-2 Italy
Russia 0-1 Slovakia

But never mind that, they're "overrated".

[Kingdom]

dont think Sweden or Germany will be too happy about getting us.

To be fair Stu, that's something that shouldn't be underestimated either. We'd have been high enough up the list of third seeds, and given we've been there or thereabouts (ie at least going for a play off) in every group bar one for the past couple of decades, we obviously have our qualities that some teams fear.

[Kingdom]

Slovakia 3-2 Italy
Russia 0-1 Slovakia

But never mind that, they're "overrated".

New Zealand 1-1 Slovakia
Armenia 3-1 slovakia

You don't think retrospectively we should have beaten them in Zilina?
I think the flippant comment is uncalled for. It's not like I don't put a small bit of thought when coming to an opinion.

[paul_oshea]

Sorry kingdom, you come to a conclusion, you form an opinion. That opinion should then come to a conclusion(yours).

Anyway, mypost has the horn for slovakia. Italy were very poor in that world cup. Slovakia are a very average team, and like most average team(s) we give them far too much respect.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Think yourself lucky ye missed his wittering in the 80s.

So did you, mainly.
Though there is more than a little irony in that that quote....

[mypost]

New Zealand 1-1 Slovakia
Armenia 3-1 slovakia

You don't think retrospectively we should have beaten them in Zilina?

Ireland 1-2 Norway
Ireland 2-3 Uruguay

We could have won in Zilina, but we could have lost as well. We got the point we needed out of there instead, which sets things up nicely for next month. The problem is people underrate them far too much. That's why Italy lost to them. That's why Russia lost to them. I don't want us losing to them.

[the bear]

i think this is quite a tough group, we can get through it but it will be hard, the rule that the least best 2nd place team doesn't even get a playoff is a bit scary as well. defo a much harder group than our current one. hopefully we qualify for the euros and build on that.

Germany - a very good young team, we will do well to take any points off them, one i wanted to avoid
Sweden - they'll be cursing their luck that they drew us as 3rd seeds, roughly on par with us could go either way
Austria - not the easiest or hardest from pot 4, but if we can't beat them home and away we don't deserve to qualify
Faroes - whatever about the brian kerr thing they're still the bleedin faroes
Kazakhstan - can't say i know anything about them or understand why they are in uefa section, presume they are muck, hopefully anyway

[DannyInvincible]

Kazakhstan - can't say i know anything about them or understand why they are in uefa section, presume they are muck, hopefully anyway

Out of interest, how or why are Kazakhstan in the UEFA section after having spent the first ten or so years of their existence as members of the AFC section? Could Iraq, for example, apply to join UEFA if they wished? I'm wondering what the confederation membership criteria are.

It's been mentioned that they're probably slightly better than their seeding would suggest. They're relatively new to UEFA - they joined in 2002 - and a couple of tough groups for them over the last few campaigns has made it difficult for them to escape the sixth pot. They have beaten Serbia, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Andorra in recent years, for example, so obviously not a complete walkover.

Edit: Actually, it seems Kazakhstan only competed in the AFC section between 1998 and 2002. Prior to that, they mustn't have been affiliated with any confederation officially since the country gained independence in 1992.

[jbyrne]

If we make the Euro's as you rightly point out, there more than likely will be continuity with the management team and philosophy, while if we don't we'll have eleven months and probably 7 matches for a new manager to settle on a squad and style.

do people not think that we should sign up trap now for the WC campaign whether we qualify for the euros or not? realistically who else would we get that would guide us through such a tricky group? given the finance Germany being in our group will bring traps salary should not be a stumbling block. if he goes after the euros i really dread the type of candidates that will be thrown into the pot.

[pineapple stu]

Out of interest, how or why are Kazakhstan in the UEFA section after having spent the first ten or so years of their existence as members of the AFC section? Could Iraq, for example, apply to join UEFA if they wished? I'm wondering what the confederation membership criteria are.

I saw it suggested somewhere else that as Kazakhstan - as part of the USSR - were "part" of UEFA, they can still choose to be UEFA now.

Its eastern part overlaps with Azerbaijan's western part - I don't know if part of Kazakhstan is technically in Europe and that was a loophole. Alternatively, there's plenty of oil money out there, and FIFA like money.

Actually, a google search suggests the second reason - part of the country is technically in Europe.