Why a Celtic Cros?!?!

[Duncan Gardner]

Liam. The 'neo-fascists', as you call them and from other European countries, actually associate with both extreme nationalist and extreme unionist groups in Northern Ireland. No one side has a monopoly. (Although unionist paramilitaries have never taken the British far right seriously- the C18, BNP etc. have done little to protect the union, have they?).

The Union Jack has basically the same meaning to the young England football fan during the World Cup and to people in Belfast on 12th July. (Actually the latter tend to fly them all year round, just like their nationalist near-neighbours display the tricolor). Both serve as a mark of identity and needn't be more than that.

Dortie. It's our territory as much as your territory. And in every election we vote to keep it that way. And if all you can offer are simplistic parallels with Palestine etc., that's not going to change is it? You're hardly reaching out with a compromise.

BTW, has anyone heard from our Spanish companero Lopez? He could be a miserable bastrad sometimes, but I enjoyed winding him up?

[dortie]

Dortie. It's our territory as much as your territory. And in every election we vote to keep it that way. And if all you can offer are simplistic parallels with Palestine etc., that's not going to change is it? You're hardly reaching out with a compromise.

Naturally the majority vote is going to be pro-union when the desendants of this group were planted for that sole purpose. You see, I dont recognise the Northern statelet, therefore I dont recognise an election result that only holds the opinion of 6 counties.

And if you want to get into politics (Which i dont on a football forum), tell me when the last election/referendum was held to up-hold the union ? The last election was for europe and the one before that for the stormont assembly.

Not being ignorant here, but what compromise exactly do you want me to indicate ?

[lopez]

The Keltic cross is a neo-nazi symbol because it is associated with national purity. It needs not be repeated that 20th Century immigration to Ireland of non-whites is relatively new. Americans fascists try to connect it with Scotland - presumably to remove the taint of Papism - but if you research the connection between American fascism and Irish americans it makes some very uncomfortable reading, including many of the supporters of one political party and its army's armed struggle also being members of the KKK.

Depends whether you were pronouncing Celtic correctly or not

Well being pedantic, wouldn't the right way to pronounce it be the club we cannot mention. You know we don't call it the city Kentre, or kelery or kelebrate a goal. It's a latin word I believe, and Latin languages pronounce it as they would any ce (eg: Spanish Celta as thelta (old story of King having a lisp). Isn't Celtic in Irish Gaeilge anyway?

Liam, wouldn't take what ye see on that site too seriously. It's the Anti-Defamation League's site, a group of extreme Zionists who accuse anyone who comdemns Israel's actions of being a Nazi, think the UN is going to destroy Israel, etc, etc. Bunch of headcases really.

Zionist or not, I'd take there word over a load of KKK hillbillies anyday. Ever thought that if it wasn't for the Nazis there'd be no Israel/ZOP? I mean 6 million killed and cities with majority Jewish communities - Minsk, Vilnius, Salonika - no longer containing any Jews. IMO the Jews should have been given their own state, but the difficult decision, to take the land off the Germans was bi-passed and dumped on the Palestinians instead in what was the last European colonial snatch.

Less of the Celtic FC trolling. Macy, cop yourself on, you should know better.

adam

In other words, Peadar, f*ck off back to your crayons. It's no wonder we get kick-offs on here about C****c with l*ngers like you stirring the pot.

BTW, has anyone heard from our Spanish companero Lopez? He could be a miserable bastrad sometimes, but I enjoyed winding him up?

Just been let out of the gulag.

[brendy_éire]

Zionist or not, I'd take there word over a load of KKK hillbillies anyday.

Is there much difference? They're both a bunch of sectarian, racist bigots.

IMO the Jews should have been given their own state, but the difficult decision, to take the land off the Germans was bi-passed and dumped on the Palestinians instead in what was the last European colonial snatch.

Completely disagree. All the people who live in Palestine (regardless of religion) should be given their own, single state.
No state should be set up to house a particular religion, it only creates problems. The state of Israel is one such state, it shouldn't exist. The same goes for Iran and the Vatican.

[Duncan Gardner]

Davros. Go away, and don't come back until you can spell 'integrate', and understand what it means. Ditto silly claims about the fascists dealing only with unionists. Where's your evidence for that 99%?

Both unionist and nationalist paramilitaries have long-established links with similar organisations and neo-fascist parties all over Europe and beyond. See Irish (and Colombian?) media passim over 30 years. Most of this relates to buying arms, though occasionally they try to articulate some sort of half-hearted joint political philosophy. By 'fascist', I don't merely mean anyone vaguely right-wing who disagrees with me, of course- though recent electoral/ referendum evidence suggests Ireland is just as ingrained in its prejudices as Britain, Holland, France and the rest.

Dortie. You're disingenuous rather than ignorant. The unionists who regularly win every election in Coleraine, Limavady and Magherafelt are generally people whose ancestors lived there 200 or 400 years ago. To refuse to recognise their vote because you think they have no right to be there is just daft. No-one is forcing you to talk politics, but statements like "the North of Ireland...State 'legitamate' armies murdering innocent people, and a foreign government occupying another peoples territory" hardly suggest avoiding the issue, do they? Oh, and all elections in NI- given that they're contested basically on one issue- are effective polls on the border. As you well know.

On a slightly lighter note, there are always possibilities for compromise. Like when LoI or IL fans suggest a joint cup competition. Plenty of fans on both sides (including me) are in favour- but it won't get anywhere unless you as a Derry City fan move on from what happened in 1972.

Or indeed 1689. Welcome back, Lopez

[Duncan Gardner]

Calm down Davros.

As I repeated above, unionist paramilitaries have links with far right groups in Britain and beyond. Searchlight and the other media you mention exaggerate these- basically, the UDA and UVF don't need knuckle-dragging English BNP members either to defend Ulster or (more relevantly) to divvy up the extortion, prostitution and other rackets in inner-city Belfast.

Since nationalist paramilitary activities are basically the same (just substitute 'Ireland' for 'Ulster'), they don't need to invite Nick Griffin around for tea. But their links with various factions, brigades etc. in France, Italy, Germany and Spain are well documented. Though you'll need to look beyond the Huddleboard and the Irish Post for details, I expect

If you've a problem with OWC, as a member why don't you raise it?

[lopez]

One example of the Irish-American community's coolness towards 'niggars' juxtaposing with enthusiasm for republicanism was the stateside visit by Sean Flynn of the IRSP in during the 1981 hunger strikes. The organisers, and prospective donors, had a seizure when he brought up the similarity between the orange state's discrimination and South Africa. One millionaire tearing up his cheque told Flynn: 'I don't like *******.'

DG, the FARC may well be a nasty bunch of drug wholesalers, but they aren't a part of the White Nation umbrella. 'Official' links between Republicans and fascists - outside individuals within the right-wing of Irish America - has been non-existent, although I have read that Vlaams Blok adored the Rah and had a big punch-up with some NF in the eighties at a Nuremberg style Fashfest in Northern Belgium during the eighties, over this.

As for Dortie's refusal 'to recognise [unionists] vote because [he thinks] they have no right to be there', well if you are going to lecture us about democracy let's start with the democratic wish of the Irish people to have 'autonomy' within the UK (until that was continually denied) and subsequently independence. Dortie's refusal - and mine aswell come to that - to give the NI statelet any legitimacy whatsoever stems from the fact that it was founded on the sight of a pointed gun.

[Duncan Gardner]

Dortie's refusal - and mine aswell come to that - to give the NI statelet any legitimacy whatsoever stems from the fact that it was founded on the sight of a pointed gun.

Aye, just like the Irish Free State (post Civil War) and innumerable other regimes worldwide throughout history. The pointed gun was 80 years ago, the regime that followed it hasn't been there for 30. Time to move on?

To Dortie: my point was really that you can't argue the politics on one hand and then cry foul 'leave the politics out of it' when someone answers you. I'm quite happy to talk about Derry City without reference to the early 1970s events or wider conflict.

But enough of Dav's beer gut

PS the big man and I agreed over a beer watching the match last night that five points from yer first three games would be a good return. Surely a place for him in Brian's set-up?

[Duncan Gardner]

Told ye, I'm already off to an expensive couple of games that week- but ye can buy us a drink down Fulham way

[lopez]

Aye, just like the Irish Free State (post Civil War)...

Exactly! The other half of partitioned Ireland.

...The pointed gun was 80 years ago, the regime that followed it hasn't been there for 30. Time to move on?

The union that the Irish people wanted destroyed still exists. Partition still exists. Nothing has 'moved on' there.

[liam88]

Dunc-I seem to remeber you waving around a 4-provinces flag-surely in favour of a united Ireland ey?
In another thread we were discussing nationalist/unionist symbols, the Ulster Provincial flag is pretty much all-round nationalist and you seemed pretty attached to it?

True colours ey?