Epl 2011/2012

**BonnieShels** · 23/05/2013, 10:08 AM

I assumed at this stage it would be Poyet.

Shame really that the candidates for the job are of such a low profile.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 23/05/2013, 10:45 AM

Low quality?

**geysir** · 23/05/2013, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

To be fair the tie was practically won against Rubin once they scored over there, certainly when they scored the second. Steaua gave them a serious run for their money though and even Sparta were only a goal away from going through at the end. These are all teams I'd expect Chelsea to beat anyway, that's why I don't think it was a significant achievement. Chelsea are way above Europa League standard.

Yeah, all games. I don't see the contradiction, your overall record is exactly the same? Di Matteo's league record is almost identical to Rafa's so, percentage-wise as he only had half the amount of games.

Edit- I am including the 10 defeats in the 20 not won of course.

I suppose you can argue Chelsea were 3rd when Rafa took over and finished 3rd, so what did Rafa really achieve? Not much in his early months, it looked like the constant vilification had eroded his authority and his fine tuning/tinkering of the available talent was stuttering in effect.

From March onwards, with a game every 3 or 4 days, I'd give him a 9/10 for turning around that situation while the mindless vilification continued.
You can talk about the likes of Steau, Sparta, Rubin and Basel, that Chelsea should be beating them, but these days in the EPL, that's a very good run. I'd rate the away performance against Basel as pure 'Rafaesque' and in the home leg - some 10 minutes of devastating football blew Basel away.
I'd say they had the hardest EPL run-in considering the Europa ties as well, finishing 5th was just as realistic as a top 4 position. Rafa had them ticking over with a controlled authority and pulled off the important results. You'd wonder how their schedule would have been arranged, if they had made it to the FA cup final?

**KK77** · 23/05/2013, 11:42 AM

"I believe he is in the top six managers in the world and I believe he will go even higher than that.

"Roberto is a very special manager. In my eyes he is No 1 in Europe but, okay, I'm a little biased."

Dave Whelan, regarding Martinez.

What's that place in Stillorgan called! LOL

**peadar1987** · 23/05/2013, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Another club with illusions of grandeur. Pullis has done a good job there but obviously the Chairman wants to kick on from the middle to lower middle reaches of the EPL. Fair enough but Stoke are probably a Championship club with bigger clubs like Notts Forest, Sheff Wed, Derby C, Leeds U and others envious of their achievements in the EPL. There's an old adage "be careful what you wish for" and I wouldn't be surprised if Stoke are relegated next season but then again....it's a funny old game.

It depends what you mean by "big club". In terms of attendances, Stoke have a higher average attendance than anyone in the Football League. In terms of historic success, until the mid-1980s they were a solid mid-table club who had occasional cup runs. In terms of great and famous players, we produced perhaps the greatest of them all in Sir Stanley Matthews, as well as having legends like Alan Hudson, Jimmy Greenhoff, Geoff Hurst and Gordon Banks.

Pulis was sacked mainly because of his increasingly bizarre tactical decisions, and his performance in the transfer market. He did very well for us until last season, and then things started to fall apart. He fell out with Pennant and Etherington has been going off the boil as he gets towards the end of his career, and he has completely failed to replace them. We've gone from being a hard-working, expansive team with a real goal threat from two pacey wingers and powerful strikers, to one with no imagination, little goal threat, and increasingly under pressure at the back.

I'm eternally grateful to Tony for what he has done for Stoke City, but I think now was probably the time for him to move on. Hopefully the next manager can build on his success, and create a team with the same hard-working attitude and team spirit as the one we currently have, but make better use of our strengths, and perhaps bring us back to the sort of play that saw us make the FA Cup final in 2011.

**BonnieShels** · 23/05/2013, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Low quality?

Profile. Oops. Had a mind blank making the post.

**ArdeeBhoy** · 23/05/2013, 12:02 PM

Fair enough. Less is more.

**OwlsFan** · 23/05/2013, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by peadar1987

It depends what you mean by "big club". In terms of attendances, Stoke have a higher average attendance than anyone in the Football League. In terms of historic success, until the mid-1980s they were a solid mid-table club who had occasional cup runs. In terms of great and famous players, we produced perhaps the greatest of them all in Sir Stanley Matthews, as well as having legends like Alan Hudson, Jimmy Greenhoff, Geoff Hurst and Gordon Banks.

Pulis was sacked mainly because of his increasingly bizarre tactical decisions, and his performance in the transfer market. He did very well for us until last season, and then things started to fall apart. He fell out with Pennant and Etherington has been going off the boil as he gets towards the end of his career, and he has completely failed to replace them. We've gone from being a hard-working, expansive team with a real goal threat from two pacey wingers and powerful strikers, to one with no imagination, little goal threat, and increasingly under pressure at the back.

I'm eternally grateful to Tony for what he has done for Stoke City, but I think now was probably the time for him to move on. Hopefully the next manager can build on his success, and create a team with the same hard-working attitude and team spirit as the one we currently have, but make better use of our strengths, and perhaps bring us back to the sort of play that saw us make the FA Cup final in 2011.

Didn't say "big club". I said "bigger club". I understand that they have higher attendances in the EPL but let's give them a dose of a few seasons in the 1st division and Championship and we'll see how those attendances compare then. I can't remember them winning a major trophy in my life time (quick check of Wiki shows a League Cup win in the 1970s which equals Wednesday's one as well in recent history in the 1990s).

As for legends, don't forget the legend that was Terry Conroy. I remember Stoke in the pre Premiership days in the top flight and they are obviously a well run club but I still think those clubs I mention are still bigger clubs in terms of pedigree and support but that of course means little and I am sure they would all love to be in Stoke's position.

Change of manager - I always tell people that I have seen around 20 changes of managers at Hillsboro, of whom perhaps 5 or 6 improved things and the others made it worse. Risky business but nothing ventured one may say.

How did you come to support Stoke ?

**Charlie Darwin** · 23/05/2013, 1:10 PM

Stoke were bang in the middle of the Championship attendance table the season of their promotion: http://stats.football365.com/2008/ENG/D1/attend.html

**KK77** · 23/05/2013, 1:53 PM

Latest from David Whelan on Roberto.

"We have had a good, constructive talk - nothing about wages it is all about the club and can we move it forward in terms of the training facilities and youth development," Whelan said.

"It is all tied up in that. He wants to do certain things and I'm hoping I can assist in that but I want a day or two to look at it.

"I don't want to say yes until I've had time to think about it. It will be Monday before I can promise anything."

**peadar1987** · 23/05/2013, 2:31 PM

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Didn't say "big club". I said "bigger club". I understand that they have higher attendances in the EPL but let's give them a dose of a few seasons in the 1st division and Championship and we'll see how those attendances compare then. I can't remember them winning a major trophy in my life time (quick check of Wiki shows a League Cup win in the 1970s which equals Wednesday's one as well in recent history in the 1990s).

As for legends, don't forget the legend that was Terry Conroy. I remember Stoke in the pre Premiership days in the top flight and they are obviously a well run club but I still think those clubs I mention are still bigger clubs in terms of pedigree and support but that of course means little and I am sure they would all love to be in Stoke's position.

Change of manager - I always tell people that I have seen around 20 changes of managers at Hillsboro, of whom perhaps 5 or 6 improved things and the others made it worse. Risky business but nothing ventured one may say.

How did you come to support Stoke ?

It does rile me when people say that certain clubs are "bigger" than Stoke, although it wasn't your intention. Clubs don't have a god-given right to be where they are, and I think each club should have the intention of making the most of their current situation, regardless of historical success or crowd sizes. I know it's subjective, but in the grand scheme of things, I don't think there's much to call between Stoke, Wednesday, Derby and Forest, especially if you take out the Clough factor. Leeds would arguably be a bigger club on a more consistent basis.

I'm almost always against changing managers just for the sake of change, as seemed to be the case at Charlton when Curbishley was sacked. I thinl Charlton has essentially gotten bored of him. Pulis seems to have been let go for a very specific set of reasons, chiefly his style of play, his underutilisation of the potential of the squad, and his squandering of the transfer budget he's been given. If the next manager is a well-thought-out step forwards, who can do all of these things better than TP, while still keeping together the factors that have made Stoke great, that would be brilliant. On the other hand, if it's Mark Hughes, well...

I support Stoke because my dad is a born and bred clayhead who held a season ticket at the Victoria ground, before he moved to Ireland after marrying my mum.

**BonnieShels** · 23/05/2013, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by peadar1987

I support Stoke because my dad is a born and bred clayhead who held a season ticket at the Victoria ground, before he moved to Ireland after marrying my mum.

A very commendable and understandable reason.

But Bray! Eugh!

**DeLorean** · 23/05/2013, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

I suppose you can argue Chelsea were 3rd when Rafa took over and finished 3rd, so what did Rafa really achieve? Not much in his early months, it looked like the constant vilification had eroded his authority and his fine tuning/tinkering of the available talent was stuttering in effect.

From March onwards, with a game every 3 or 4 days, I'd give him a 9/10 for turning around that situation while the mindless vilification continued.
You can talk about the likes of Steau, Sparta, Rubin and Basel, that Chelsea should be beating them, but these days in the EPL, that's a very good run. I'd rate the away performance against Basel as pure 'Rafaesque' and in the home leg - some 10 minutes of devastating football blew Basel away.
I'd say they had the hardest EPL run-in considering the Europa ties as well, finishing 5th was just as realistic as a top 4 position. Rafa had them ticking over with a controlled authority and pulled off the important results. You'd wonder how their schedule would have been arranged, if they had made it to the FA cup final?

I'd agree with most of that really and even said a lot of it myself. You can't fault the results in the final month or two. I do wonder with Chelsea though how much of it is down to the players and how much is down to the manager. I know that sounds like I'm trying to deprive Benitez of any credit, but I can't help thinking Di Matteo didn't have to do too much with the same players who managed to deliver a Champions League and FA Cup. When they get the scent for success, they don't tend to let it slip. Rafa's rotational policy worked out very well as it kept players fresh in what was a fairly frantic period of matches, but then you'd hardly notice any dip in quality when the Chelsea team is rotated. The same couldn't be said for his time at Liverpool when it would mean playing N'Gog instead of Torres!

**KK77** · 23/05/2013, 3:37 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

I suppose you can argue Chelsea were 3rd when Rafa took over and finished 3rd, so what did Rafa really achieve? Not much in his early months, it looked like the constant vilification had eroded his authority and his fine tuning/tinkering of the available talent was stuttering in effect.

From March onwards, with a game every 3 or 4 days, I'd give him a 9/10 for turning around that situation while the mindless vilification continued.
You can talk about the likes of Steau, Sparta, Rubin and Basel, that Chelsea should be beating them, but these days in the EPL, that's a very good run. I'd rate the away performance against Basel as pure 'Rafaesque' and in the home leg - some 10 minutes of devastating football blew Basel away.
I'd say they had the hardest EPL run-in considering the Europa ties as well, finishing 5th was just as realistic as a top 4 position. Rafa had them ticking over with a controlled authority and pulled off the important results. You'd wonder how their schedule would have been arranged, if they had made it to the FA cup final?

Yes when it came down to it he showed his class.

**BonnieShels** · 24/05/2013, 9:07 AM

Originally Posted by peadar1987

On the other hand, if it's Mark Hughes, well...

Originally Posted by BBC

Mark Hughes is leading contender for Stoke City manager's job

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22649939
Uh oh!

**peadar1987** · 24/05/2013, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by BonnieShels

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22649939
Uh oh!

Ah sure what do the bookies know!

And anyway, a friend of mine reminded me about how well he did at Blackburn, so if you squint really hard to see past QPR and Man City, he doesn't look quite so bad!

**BonnieShels** · 24/05/2013, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by peadar1987

Ah sure what do the bookies know!

And anyway, a friend of mine reminded me about how well he did at Blackburn, so if you squint really hard to see past QPR and Man City, he doesn't look quite so bad!

And don't forget Wales.

**geysir** · 24/05/2013, 2:38 PM

Originally Posted by DeLorean

I'd agree with most of that really and even said a lot of it myself. You can't fault the results in the final month or two. I do wonder with Chelsea though how much of it is down to the players and how much is down to the manager. I know that sounds like I'm trying to deprive Benitez of any credit, but I can't help thinking Di Matteo didn't have to do too much with the same players who managed to deliver a Champions League and FA Cup. When they get the scent for success, they don't tend to let it slip. Rafa's rotational policy worked out very well as it kept players fresh in what was a fairly frantic period of matches, but then you'd hardly notice any dip in quality when the Chelsea team is rotated. The same couldn't be said for his time at Liverpool when it would mean playing N'Gog instead of Torres!

I'd rate Rafa's stint similar to Avram Grant's season, similar context - having to manage while enduring revolting fans' rabid protests and player 'unrest'.
And not worse than Hiddink, who didn't have to face those obstacles.
I suppose under 'normal' circumstances for an experienced manager, the Chelsea squad would be an easy one to steer but both Rafa and Avram did not have easy circumstances

**KK77** · 24/05/2013, 3:27 PM

Mike Phelan and Eric Steele both given P45's today from Man U. I suppose changes bound to happen with a new manager in charge. Strong and obvious rumours Steve Round and Chris Woods are coming in.

**OwlsFan** · 18/03/2015, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by peadar1987

I'm almost always against changing managers just for the sake of change, as seemed to be the case at Charlton when Curbishley was sacked. I thinl Charlton has essentially gotten bored of him. Pulis seems to have been let go for a very specific set of reasons, chiefly his style of play, his underutilisation of the potential of the squad, and his squandering of the transfer budget he's been given. If the next manager is a well-thought-out step forwards, who can do all of these things better than TP, while still keeping together the factors that have made Stoke great, that would be brilliant. On the other hand, if it's Mark Hughes, well....

Progress under Mark Hughes? I still hear all the opposing managers coming out with the same cliches about travelling to Stoke. "Hard place to go", "tough tackling", "long ball" etc etc All that would appear to have changed is that Stoke no longer have Delap with the long throw but otherwise the perception seems to be the same.