QuoteYeah true enough a full house that day!Originally Posted by DeLorean
The equaliser in the Carling Cup Final I suppose (I know, I know but it's a big competition to some clubs).
Yeah true enough a full house that day!
Lets talk about six baby
So without the "money" wins in the Premiership, we would have had 17 Manchester United wins and 3 for Arsenal. In the long run that would not have been good for the Premiership. In fact without Man City this year, it would have been another boring cake walk for Man U. The only way many of the other clubs can compete against the world brand that is Man U, is outside investment. Incidentally, the Glaziers who bought Man U aren't angels either. The days of clubs like Aston Villa, Derby and Notts Forest winning league titles are gone without investment from elsewhere.
I see Frannie Lee helped in the presentation of the trophy to Man City. No Joey Barton sneaky elbows and knees in the back for him. He liked the big punch ups with Norman Hunter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8kxMnc5KUs
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
Your guess is as good as mine but I think that's too simplistic. The richest team doesn't always win in the Bundesliga when the financial wealth is more evenly spread.
Also, there's quite a bit of research showing that dynasties are tolerated as long as people see the success as having been achieved the right way. In United's case the big factor has long been the core of the 1992(?) youth team and Ferguson. Liverpool's dynasty started with Shankly and was kept alive by successors. European football has always had dynasties yet has kept growing in popularity. I'd be more inclined to argue that without Abramovic wage inflation in the EPL would not have been as abundant and others would have been able to compete on a more even footing. Look how well run clubs like Norwich and Swansea have come up through the ranks. Now the only way you can win is by having an oligarch or billionaire come in - OK, yiou still need to spend wisely and run things well on the pitch, but by and large that skill can be bought.
I'm not naive - English football has always operated on a benefactor-owner model but things have got out of hand. The sums involved are ludicrous, the whole pyramid has been disrupted, the game is bankrupt outside the top flight (and for many within it), the taxpayer and local businesses have been kicked to touch by bankrupt football clubs by virtue of the Football Creditors Rule. Crooks, spivs and opportunists are extracting huge sums from a national asset and will argue till the cows come home against any tighter regulation just as bankers argue against rules that would loosen their grip on the economic rent they extract from what should be a fundamentally useful industry.
Yes, last Sunday was great but if you want competitive parity in the longer run you've got to support UEFA's financial initiatives.
The Bundesliga is still the ideal model?
As ideal as you're likely to get in my opinion. It's not perfect but it's far more sustainable than the EPL's model, or La Liga's where the debts owed by the main clubs to the taxman alone is disgraceful.
Whatever happened to 1-0 to the Arsenal. I had the pleasure of watching Reading 5 Arsenal 7 last night. I had the sneaking suspicion that when Arsenal pulled 1 back before half time to make it 4-1 it might be a close game but who would have thought of that scoreline. A few Arsenal supporters were on camera leaving the ground when they were 4-0 down. Hah! Nice goal by Noel Hunt by the way among Reading's 5. Felt for Reading. Arsenal's equaliser came in the 95th minute when only 4 minutes of stoppage time was signalled and they should also have been down to 10 men.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
Great result for Spurs yesterday. I would agree with AVB in that they look like they are getting stronger now as opposed to recent times when they blew up near the finish line. Really like AVB myself. In other news Arry’s missus wasn’t in Dubai with QPR and he trained the team harder than any other team out there! Spoofer!
Lets talk about six baby
Sky must be crying in their soup this weekend. Very little to get excited about with only the Champions League place at stake. Hardly edge of the seat stuff.
Wigan gone after years of hanging on in there. Still the players go down, and those good enough will be transferred back up, with an FA Cup medal in their pocket, something the super hero Moyes at Everton was never able to achieve. They and their fans will always have that to look back on rather than mere subsistence in the Premiership every year.
I saw the spending figures below recently:
Attachment 1911
Arsenal have done very well on the amount spent in comparison to the rest. Everton finish each season approximately in line with its spending, possibly a place or two higher. Liverpool are the big under achievers although is there a Champions League in there (can't remember when they last won it)?
Last edited by OwlsFan; 15/05/2013 at 10:25 AM.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
How cringeworthy was Niall Quinn on SKY last night? "Everybody loves cuddly little Wigan, they've captured everyone's hearts" and so on, all flippin' night. Yes, there's a lot to admire about them but they went down because they lost too many games. It's not a popularity contest.
As far as I'm concerned Wigan's season has been an unambiguous success. Winning the FA Cup is a permanent thing. A medal is permanent. Apart from a very nice lifestyle what will Mikel Arteta be able to show his grandchildren from his days in England? A passport stamp from when he played in the Champs League?
Paul Jewell threw out that old line last night "but with all the money that the EPL involves the cynic in me says that's more important". I disagree totally, and Wigan's parachute payments are hardly measly anyway. Wigan - yes Wigan - are in Europe and have silverware. So what if they're in the Championship? If they're good enough and smart enough, they can get back and even so, they'll find a level appropriate for a club that attracts, what, 15,000 fans?
I agree Stutts, so what about the money? Football is a contest to see who can win the most games and competitions, not who has the fattest bank account. In fifty years time, Wigan fans will still remember winning the FA Cup. Nobody will have vivid memories of three more seasons of finishing 16th.
I know but kids are brainwashed into thinking that finishing 4th or 4th last is a bigger prize than, well, an actual prize. If I was a Fulham fan I'd have swapped a Europa League win for relegation, no brainer - especially with an owner that could prevent a freefall like wolves or Leeds. Yet even when they were in the final it was seen as secondary to a forthcoming laegue game and at Bolton Gary Megson wasn't particularly enthused about a QF (?) tie against Bayern Munich (?) because he had a game against some other overrated English PL side at the weekend. It's all wrong!!!
And so what if a club earns more money in one division than another? They spend all their money anyway, and more! The money benefits the spivs and hangers-on, not the club itself.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 15/05/2013 at 12:06 PM.
Yeah they won it in 2005. It's amazing the amount of Liverpool fans I know who blame the introduction of Sky and TV money for United's rise and their demise.
Last edited by DeLorean; 15/05/2013 at 12:08 PM.
Some people just lose sight of the fact that the reason they wanted the money in the first place was to win trophies. If they want to watch large numbers steadily getting larger, I'd suggest they abandon football and look at this website instead. It would make them much happier.
Wahey!
I find it fascinating the difference in attitudes here than to other sites.
Like both of you I always found it annoying when clubs started to decide Cup competitions were distractions.
We were discussing in The pub last Friday night about how many FA Cup winners we all remembered and pretty much I think we could name without fail from 1976-2000 and then it gets hazy. I thought that that was quite amazing how the knowledge of the cups dovetailed with when it became "less important".
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
I agree totally with Stutts and Peadar. The only thing I would say is that it's a bit of a pity that Wigan's FA Cup win came in the same season as relegation. It does add a bittersweet element to what is probably still the greatest season in their history. But yeah, to choose one over the other I would go with the silverware all day long.
It's probably better that they were relegated last night as opposed to the final day as well. At least now they can turn their frowns upside-down, so to speak, for Sunday and celebrate their cup win with their fans instead of crying about being relegated.
What a day it would have been for them though if they had beaten Villa to stay up as well! To be honest though, the goals they conceded to Swansea last week were unforgivable and they can't have any complaints over the season as being able to defend, even just a small bit, is a vital part of football.
Wigan got what they deserved. They have been floating with relegation since Martinez came to the club bar one season. The seasons previous to him they had good league positions. I suppose if you listen to the media long enough. Great FA Cup win all the same and credit to them.
Lets talk about six baby
Super hero Moyes! LOL
I am sure he will break that duck against Wigan in August though can you count the Charity Shield as a trophy? LOL
Last edited by KK77; 15/05/2013 at 1:49 PM.
Lets talk about six baby
Mancini counts it as a trophy. God knows why.
You're being very harsh on Wigan. They're a small club who have survived for about 5 years longer than could have been reasonably expected because of their brilliant scouting network and Dave Whelan's business acumen. If more clubs in the top leagues in England operated like Wigan, it'd be a much better place.
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