Ray Houghton Disgrace

**Lionel Ritchie** · 29/06/2004, 9:45 AM

Originally Posted by Dricky

It used to be writen on the way into Bandon...... well no blacks no catholics. maybe thats why we in Cork no longer find it offensive. Besides that, the ball in the back of the net is so much sweeter and they can never take that away from us, we still slag 'em off over it, and look at us on Paddy's day we have many people running around dressed a lot worse then he was. I wouldn't read too much into it and face it any time have I got news from you is on they let Irish presenters slag the hell out of the English, even their queen. I know its a different channel but same mentality and higher viewer ratings..

They will never get over it and we'll keep reminding them.

Exactly. Spot on -on all accounts. What was the final score again?

**Bowsy** · 29/06/2004, 10:18 AM

Living in England you get used to such nonsense. Not saying it's not offensive but you have to try and laugh at yourself occasionally(although I didn't find the same old gag I've heard 500 million times all that funny to be honest). Water off a ducks back to me at this stage. One thing that doesn't make it easy is the English's inability to laugh at themselves. It's like a mate who loves taking the p*ss but freaks when you try to do it to him. The reason the English don't realise the true offensiveness of this is because they now "love the Irish" and haven't a clue about all those centuries of treating us like dirt. English educational system seems to play down Anglo-Irish history. I wonder why?

**Macy** · 29/06/2004, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Bowsy

English educational system seems to play down Anglo-Irish history. I wonder why?

In fairness, the English educational system doesn't do any "empire" activities. Concerntrates on Internal History (Civil War, Tudors etc), and the World Wars. I don't remember doing much on Ireland or India, Pakistan, Africa etc etc etc. I'm sure if you talk to black or asian people they'd have similar complaints.

**Closed Account 2** · 29/06/2004, 11:02 AM

I wouldnt get too wound up about it. Yeah it annoying, that like jokes towards the Germans about the war, we seem fair game, and the points that someone made about how much more out-cry there would be if they'd made say a joke about all Arabs being terrorists is true.

My experience of living most my life in England hasnt been too bad, yeah you'd get the jokes at school but none of them seemed to be that malicious. As an adult I dont find that many people make a big issue over Irishness, then again I dont mix with the moronic minority of nationalistic English people - for a start I dont know anyone who has those stupid St.George flags on their cars.

**Pauro 76** · 29/06/2004, 12:10 PM

I think Baddiel and Skinner just wanted to up the shock factor... they'd treat other nationalities and races the same so its not anti-Irish..., i laughed at the piece but felt guilty about it at the same time... complaining is a waste of time, why do we feel the need to complain to tv companies every time someone portrays us as "Oirish".... makes us all look a shower of whingers...

**eirebhoy** · 29/06/2004, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by wws

we have a history of producing terrorists, once again I fail to see the problem - it sounds like a jolly jape at all thinks paddy

Dress up a famous Iraqi as Saddam Hussein and I'm sure it'd get a bad reaction.

**finlma** · 29/06/2004, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

If stereotyping is the problem, wasn't there an ad featuring a famous Irish footballer dressed as a leprechaun running around on Patrick's Day...for Walker's crisps? I'd say his name only everyone will get upset for bringing it up again.

One rule for one, another rule for the rest...

Stereotyping as a leprechaun is one thing and I can take this as a joke but stereotyping as a murdering terrorist is another thing altogether.

Kilroy-Silk got fired from his job for accusing all Arabs of being terrorists and I don't see a great deal of difference between what he said about Arabs and B&S insinuated about Irish.

**eirebhoy** · 29/06/2004, 1:09 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

If stereotyping is the problem, wasn't there an ad featuring a famous Irish footballer dressed as a leprechaun running around on Patrick's Day...for Walker's crisps? I'd say his name only everyone will get upset for bringing it up again.

One rule for one, another rule for the rest...

There's a difference between a leprechaun and an IRA gunman or a replica of the famine.

I haven't got to see it yet but there is supposedly a full page article in the Irish Sun the program. Websites and the FAI have been flooded with complaints, OFCOM are investigating the entire thing and there is a big chance Houghton will be sacked by RTE. I would feel sorry for him if it went that far TBH but surely he knew what he was getting himself into.

BTW if anyone has the Sun, scan in the article if you get the chance. Cheers.

**plasticpat** · 29/06/2004, 2:00 PM

....I don't understand, is this a good thing?

**Macy** · 29/06/2004, 2:18 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

Ah, so you have no problem with stereotyping per se., just the type of stereotype protrayed.

I know I shouldn't bite, as I don't particularly agree with the arguement, but wasn't that advert based in a Patricks Day Parade? Sure no one get's dressed up for them do they Conor?

Not arsed if he gets sacked from RTE as I don't rate him, particularly when he's co-commentator. He's absolutely brutal on talk sport as well from what I've heard of it. Also, if some people are getting up in arms about the Fantasy Football show, at least some are willing to take Houghton's role in it in to account rather than it just being "English TV and typical bias".

btw Whats the difference between this stereotyping, and that of "all England fans are hoolies" of a couple of weeks ago?

**NeilMcD** · 29/06/2004, 3:07 PM

Conor I have to disagree there, the leprechaun thing as was said abouve is during St. Patricks Day parade and lots of Irish people dress up in that sort of stuff during the parade. However the terrorist thing is a lot more serious. I would rather be a leprahchaun than a terrorist. Also it should be remembered that during the The Italy game in the 1994 world cup Loyalis Gunmen shot down people watching the game. This was the day Ray Houghton scored that great goal. I think Ray should have been wiser to been involved in such a poor show and insenstive joke. Skinner and Baddiel have lacked any new material in the new show and as a result they are giong for shock value as it is the only way to get a reaction. Houghton should have been wiser to have had any part to play in it. THe comparison with the Kit Kat add is stupid.

**Macy** · 29/06/2004, 3:19 PM

Yeah Conor, doesn't really bother me that much either. Did bug that earlier in the thread that complaints were flying left, right and centre about it - but none to the man who let himself dress up in those ways.

Haven't seen this Fantasy Football - the original series was okay, the radio show was far better. Always going to struggle re-introducing a series after this much time has past.

only1kilbane · 29/06/2004, 3:37 PM

Some people really need to get off there high horse and take a chill pill. It was a joke found it quite funny myself and nobody should take it to serious. Some people obviously need to take there finger out of there respective holes and relax .

**Plastic Paddy** · 29/06/2004, 3:46 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

PP, I see Ray Houghton himself is missing from that list. He must have agreed to do that stuff, yet it's all Skinners and Baddeils fault? Didn't see it, so not going to comment on what went on, but if you're that offended look at the person that could've said "no".

I am offended, Macy. Having grown up in England at the height of the IRA's "activity" here (and being bullied, labelled an "Irish pig" and plenty worse not just by my peers at school and where I lived but also in some cases by their parents), I'm particularly sensitive about the terrorist inference.

As for Ray Houghton, he should have known much, much better, especially with the Loughinisland atrocity taking place the day he scored against Italy in the 1994 World Cup. I'd vouchsafe though that he didn't write the material that caused this pain and offence. I reserve my ire for those that did and those that sanctioned it. As for Houghton, he gets only my pity. He must truly be as thick as pig**** to have allowed that to go on.

Originally Posted by only1kilbane

Some people really need to get off there high horse and take a chill pill. It was a joke found it quite funny myself and nobody should take it to serious. Some people obviously need to take there finger out of there respective holes and relax .

I refer you to my reasoning above. Leprechauns I can take as a jibe, terrorists no. If that means I'm a little uptight, then I make no apology for it whatsoever.

PP

**Macy** · 29/06/2004, 3:50 PM

Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

As for Houghton, he gets only my pity. He must truly be as thick as pig**** to have allowed that to go on.

At the risk of raising a hornets nest.... Or he doesn't really care, as he doesn't really consider himself Irish*.

*Please note: that's not saying just because he wasn't born in Ireland, he can't be Irish.

**eirebhoy** · 29/06/2004, 3:53 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

Ah, so you have no problem with stereotyping per se., just the type of stereotype protrayed.

First of all, I was not really offended by what was shown on the show but your argument isn't going to go far with people like PP. Just because one steriotype is OK doesn't mean every steriotype is OK. There would be no problem shown an Jamaican with a dreadlock wig sitting on a sunny beach but there would be a problem if the same person was shown cleaning floor with chains around his legs.

**Plastic Paddy** · 29/06/2004, 3:53 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

At the risk of raising a hornets nest.... Or he doesn't really care, as he doesn't really consider himself Irish*.

*Please note: that's not saying just because he wasn't born in Ireland, he can't be Irish.

Well, it would be sad to think that a man who served Ireland with such distinction on the football field wouldn't consider himself even partly Irish in consequence. I take your point though; it is, after all, a possibility that he has no fealty to the green.

PP

**Macy** · 29/06/2004, 4:12 PM

Originally Posted by Plastic Paddy

Well, it would be sad to think that a man who served Ireland with such distinction on the football field wouldn't consider himself even partly Irish in consequence. I take your point though; it is, after all, a possibility that he has no fealty to the green.

PP

tbh, I've seen several interviews where it comes across as a total career move. Suppose it depends on whether it's acceptable to grow to think of yourself as Irish as result of playing for the team, or whether you should consider yourself Irish before you play for the national team. I'm of the later opinion myself. Anyway, ultimately that's a debate for another day/ thread (so mods feel free to split it).