This is just something I saw posted on both OWC and YBIG within the last few days as a national newspaper - not certain which - was doing a survey on the matter. The wording of some of the questions is slightly limited in that they don't, to my mind, allow for simple or satisfactory yes-or-no answers, but I thought it might be interesting re-posting them here nevertheless and people can explain their answers if they wish to go into detail.
Maybe a mod could stick up a poll?
i) Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?
ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?
iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?
iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?
i) In theory, I would. Arguably, however, we have a 'de facto' all-island team already where anyone born north of the border can be selected by the FAI on a legitimate basis so long as they are eligible and willing to be selected. Likewise, those born in the north who would rather play for NI can do so of their own free volition. So long as individual choice has primacy, I am content with the practical situation as it is currently without feeling the need to trample on a fundamental element of another tradition's culture, irrespective of how one might wish to view some of the more contentious or unsavoury elements of that culture. So, in practice, I probably wouldn't condone a merger, the forced destruction of the IFA and its teams or the dilution of any identities concerned. That would also include a concern for our own team's identity. I'd imagine that a merger would involve having to amend the various symbolism and so forth under which we play. Would it also involve a merger of all footballing institutions, including leagues and associations, on the island? I wouldn't have so much issue with merging the leagues as clubs could still maintain their individual identities under such circumstances and it may contribute to a stronger national league, but I don't see how that would work with two separate governing associations.
ii) No. There's too much opposition to the idea, plus I don't see how FIFA's statutes would allow for it unless specific exception was made. I'm not even sure the FAI would support the idea if they were to assume the role of "successor" association to the former two.
iii) Yes, unequivocally. Although, if FIFA was to re-introduce an age cap of some sort by which a dual or multiple national registered with one association but not yet permanently tied to that association would have to decide on which association for which he was eligible he wished to represent, I wouldn't take any major issue with it. Those born in the north who wished to represent the FAI would still be entirely within their rights to declare for the FAI.
iv) If potential performance could be adjudged from looking at the strength of a team on paper, then possibly, if not probably.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 18/06/2011 at 6:26 PM. Reason: Typo may have caused confusion.
i) Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?
No.
ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?
No.
iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?
Yes.
iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?
No. Opposite i would say (identities forced together havent tended to make for successful teams in football).
i) Yes. When the time is right it will happen.
ii) No. Maybe 20 or 25 years though, when the Republic of Ireland team is a more united Irish all-Island team to ultimately render the North of Ireland an irrelevance (que outrage from Ealing Green etc.)
iii) Yes. They are Irish just the same as everyone else on this island
iv) Yes. An amalgmation of the best Irish players from either side of the divide would increase our chances of qualification
Folding my way into the big money!!!
i) Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?
I'm sufficiently pleased with the current de facto version.
ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?
Officially, no.
iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?
Yes. Players born in the north of Ireland should have as much right to play 'in the FAI team' as those originating from any other direction on the island.
iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?
No. A merger would not provide a stronger team than that which already exists.
As long as they dont use that dirge "Irelands Call" then everything would be fine
Agreed wholeheartedly @bennocelt.
Of any current Irish songs we have knocking around, what would you recommend would suit both sides?
I know Danny Boy would but is it a bit too Hollywood?
(That's Hollywood CA I mean, not Hollywood, County Down or County Wicklow)
Folding my way into the big money!!!
i) Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?
Isn't there one already? As regards, one team on the island, I am against the notion, as instead of unifying the team and fans, I could only foresee it having a divisive effect. (Perhaps people will mention the rugby situation, but I think rugby fans on both sides of the border tend to come from higher socio-economic backgrounds and hold less fundamental/extremist views regarding the "Irish problem".) I have very strong views on the fact that Irish men from the North should be able to represent their country and would hold equally as strong a view that an "All Ireland Team" would be completely inconsistant with unionist traditions and beliefs.
A unified team, sounds too much to me like a forced merger of teams that you sometimes see in the club game. Hard to see how all fans would be singing from the same hymn sheet. (literally!)
ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?
No. You have seen the petitions, blogs and downright consternation which was caused by Irish men playing for Ireland (shocker!) amongst the IFA fans, imagine what a united Ireland team would cause. Also even if the two associations were up for it, is it even possible within the legislative framework of the UEFA regulations? I would advocate an all Irish league in club terms, but the smaller teams would no doubt object and too many fat cats in the IFA and FAI would lose out on their junkets and wining and dining at UEFA conferences for that to ever be a runner.
iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?
100% yes.
iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?
Probably not. From a Irish fans perspective what we stand to gain marginaly in terms of players (2 or at most 3 starters) would probably be negetived by issues over team morale and the political furore that would eternally surround the football team.
Really and truely the united Ireland football team, can only really be a runner, when the democratic will of the people of the people in the North is to leave the United Kingdom and establish a united Ireland Ireland politically. I'm no expert on demographics, but that seems like a long way off at this point?
i) Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?
Wasnt in favour until recently but it has become apparent that an All-Ireland team is the only logical destination for Irish international football. Ideally I'd like the IFA to resume its former position as the FA for the entire island as it is the oldest and most historic Irish association. International matches to alternate between Dublin and Belfast (if there were better facilities) for the purposes of compromise.
ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?
No
iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?
Yes
iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?
Yes but not by a hugely significant margin.
i) No
ii) No
iii) Yes
iv) Marginally
Boovidge, I'd have thought it has become more apparent recently that the logical destination for Irish football is the status quo.
For as long as England, Scotland and Wales field their own national teams, I think NI should as well. If NI-born players prefer to play for the ROI they should have that option.
I personally think we have something special as supporters of the ROI, and I think NI fans think the same about their team. That would be lost forever. There'd be too much of a chance for the more politically oriented among both sets of existing fans to creat disharmony. It was bad enough when we were split into the Mick or Roy camps; imagine the risks arising from the legacy-ROI / legacy-NI / nationalist / unionist / republican / loyalist fault lines.
The gains would be marginal and would not justify the downside.
NB posted this in another thread the other day: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-16012932.htmlOriginally Posted by French Toasht
So, if that's what the Belfast Telegraph is saying, then re-unification will probably happen around some time next week.A major survey by Northern Ireland’s two universities has found support for a united Ireland at an all-time low.
The DUP has welcomed the findings of the Northern Ireland Life and Times Survey which reported that just 16% were in favour of unification.
The survey, which was conducted between October and December last year, found just 33% of Catholics wanted Irish unity on the long term. More than half of Catholics said they would prefer to stay in the UK, a view shared by 90% of Protestants.
That would mean our records of 1988, 1990, 1994 and 2002 being expunged from the association's records and dropping in ranking/seeding. I can see why it might be offered as a compromise of sorts, but can't see many Ireland fans being too keen on it. Likewise, for NI fans, the idea of losing their tradition and history if the FAI were to become the "successor" team would probably prove very problematic with them. And then, those are just cosmetic issues really in comparison to the major problems people would have.
Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?
Ideally, yes, but like the rugby or cricket sides, it would require unionist endorsement to be a real success.
ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?
No, like Kosovo and Gibraltar, too much UEFA red tape.
iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?
Yes.
iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?
About the same as now - Lafferty and Baird would get in the first eleven, but hard to see who else would.
You already have an all-Ireland side, boosted by players from Britain; its record is still pretty mediocre. When that record was much worse, in the past, it didn't become an irrelevance. Cue (sic) witless stirring, eh?
At best only marginally. If increasing the chance of qualification is the motivation, you'd be better off merging with Brazil. Or England.Yes. An amalgmation of the best Irish players from either side of the divide would increase our chances of qualification
A bit sweeping, that. Even anecdotally I know plenty of rugby fans from NI who will watch the team in Dublin but are pretty hard-core unionists.
41% voted for a united Ireland in May this year. That's 18% behind. Not happening anytime soon.when the democratic will of the people of the people in the North is to leave the United Kingdom and establish a united Ireland Ireland politically. I'm no expert on demographics, but that seems like a long way off at this point?
Apparent to who? There's already a mediocre all-Ireland team, also a Northern Ireland side who record, albeit modest, was better in WC 2010 qualifying than Turkey, Bulgaria, Austria, Romania, Poland, Belgium and 20 other European countries. We can sustain international football quite happily, thanks. Stop stirring.
It would require unionist support to happen at all. It won't get it and so won't happen. What happens in Kosovo etc. is irrelevant.
Not Lafferty. Though Brunt would based on his form in the EPL, probably Hughes too for one more season. Davis plays in the Champions League every season and has been SPL player of the year recently.About the same as now - Lafferty and Baird would get in the first eleven, but hard to see who else would
Last edited by Gather round; 18/06/2011 at 3:23 PM.
i) Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?
Yes, I believe in a United Ireland and I would like very much to see an all-Ireland team.
ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?
Absolutely not. No way the IFA lets this happen and let's be real here, is there really an appetite for all of the controversy that would come out of something like a merger?
iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?
Yes, of course. They are entitled to Irish citizenship by birth so why should they be excluded from playing for our football team? I was born in Canada and I am eligibile. Am I more worthy of eligibility than someone born in the North? I don't think so.
iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?
Yes. Perhaps not in the short term due to the lack of quality players from the North but who knows when the next George Best will appear? It might take fifty years but it sure would be great to be able to pick from such a larger player pool.
[QUOTE=DannyInvincible;1499193]
i) Would you like to see an All-Ireland representative football team?
ii) Do you think it will happen in the next 10 years?
iii) Should players born in the north be allowed play in the FAI team?
iv) Would an All-Ireland team increase the chance of major tournament qualification?[QUOTE]
(i)Yes. Unequivocally yes.
(ii)No. Not a chance. However we should prioritise what the goals are and the FAI and the IFA really need to start working together for the good of the sport on the island. I saw the Setanta Cup and the Carling Cup as great opportuntities for improving relations between the clubs, fans and associations.
(iii) Yes. It is their right.
(iv) Currently I can't see it being anything but a burden as Ireland's team is significantly superior to the north's. In the past though it would have been a no-brainer and to think what we could have achieved is only shocking.
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
(IV) Does George Best have any kids?
No Somos muchos pero estamos locos.
Yes, as has been repeatedly stated previously, it works in other sports, so why not football?
No, in fact I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime, although I'd say a one off Ireland team similar to the "Shamrock Rovers XI" is possible for testimonials
Yes, and their right to do that is protected by international law
Yes, but not by a massive degree. We would have more squad depth than currently, but the starting XI would remain as is at the moment
You've already got the latter (how many times need this be repeated), there's no realistic likelihod of the former in the foreseeable future. You are just daydreaming about abolishing the NI side. Stop stirring.
Broadly agree, but the two (and their broad supports) need to take a different approach. We shoulod stop the hysterics about a few players buggering off, you could help towards that by not selecting anyone who's already played for an NI adult team (U-19 up).
The Setanta Cup is failing. The LOI is stronger, IL teams don't take it seriously, maybe largely because of their weakness, but also as it doesn't offer enough prize money/ profile etc.?
The Carling Cup, alas, wasn't taken seriously by the Welsh fans, or really anyone in the NI set-up including manager and senior players (to the extent it wasn't really worth our entering, the bad publicity offsets any fee or TV income). The locals weren't exactly enthusing either, playing al the games in one city a bad idea. I can't see it reviving to be honest.
Compared competitive records since 2006 (ie including Euro 2008 qualifiers):I can't see it being anything but a burden as Ireland's team is significantly superior to the north's
RoI 30- 12- 13- 5- 49 points notionally
NI 27- 11- 8- 8- 41 points
Clearly the South are better overall and on good form in this tournament; but you can see why we're both (seeded) third (rate).
Sorry, this is pie in the sky. You didn't qualify for a single finals until 1988, you've managed one of the last eight.Adding a couple more players to the pool is unlikely to have changed that. India, Pakistan and Indonesia have millions of players available- they've done nothing in the World Cup for decades.In the past though it would have been a no-brainer and to think what we could have achieved is only shocking
Er, because while NI rugby and cricket fans generally (not me personally) accept there not being a full NI side in those sports, football fans have had one for a century. Why should we give it up, just to answer a few bored stirrers, daydreaming Shinners and simpletons who presumably think the combined side could field 22 players in a game. Although even then a back eight featuring McShane, Bad Evans and co. isn't likely to strike fear into strikers Worldwide...
In fairness you don't see any of the Orange Order flags that we saw recently at the ROI V NI game or the sectarian chanting by the NI fans in the tunnel during the NI v Scotland game at rugby matches. Neither anthem would have been booed at a rugby match. Its well known the football attracts an element that I doubt have much of an interest in football and prefer to use it to spout their sectarian rubbish and that applies to both sides.
As regards NI players who'd start for us, I'd only take Davis and Evans, but I doubt Davis would get a look in in Trap's system. Brunt is good but not better than Duff.
A question for the ROI fans. Do you support NI? (when they are not playing us obviously). I gather there was great support in the 80s when they were in WCs etc. I would always have wished them the best of luck and particularly during the Stan era, when our campaign was effectively over before it started, I always looked to the NI result first after our own and their exploits against Spain etc. But to be honest the recent acrimony they have caused, the pathetic petition, the blogs, the boycotts, and just Nigel Worthington in general have really made it hard to back them. And as Danny alluded to in his article, it will only have served to make young nationalists more entrenched in their desire to play for Ireland/not represent NI.
Last edited by French Toasht; 18/06/2011 at 5:51 PM.
That's a bit rich, when you still refer to "the South".
Anyway, though CR does have a history here of stirring (mainly on other matters), just because you believe we have a de facto all-Ireland team, doesn't mean that CR can't wish for an authentic one.
I personally don't think NI fans should have to give up their representative team either, but I'm not sure there are any simpletons who think there could be 22 players in an AI team. You didn't do your argument any favours by putting in such a facile point.
Its a billion times different to those other sports in terms of types of fans and methods of support
Posting Permissions
Quote
Bookmarks