Should McCarthy, Walters, Wilson and Gibson be given a future callup or ignored?

[DannyInvincible]

Completely agree. I have a feeling life at Wolves will have softened O'Hara's cough though and he'll be looking to declare during the new season.

Mick McCarthy's been urging him to declare as well: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...reland?cc=5739

"I am trying to nip his ears to play - I think he should," McCarthy told the Birmingham Mail. "I've been right in his ear hole - just pulling his leg - telling him we need him to play because he'd be terrific.

"I want to have a good Irish team - he does qualify as far as I'm aware and the FAI have been in touch with him. He hasn't committed one way or the other but I am quite persuasive."

Not sure how comfortable I'd be with him coming in and taking the place of a regular and committed squad member at this point given he obviously views us as a fall-back.

[SwanVsDalton]

Not sure how comfortable I'd be with him coming in and taking the place of a regular and committed squad member at this point given he obviously views us as a fall-back.

I agree, but I'd always but up for giving him a chance. Let these players prove their commitment after they declare if they're good enough. Problem is he'd have to understand he'd be at the very back of the queue, and would have to wait for an opportunity. He might get called up to a couple of squads for instance, and not get a game. Or maybe just get five minutes ala Wilson or Delaney. And I'm not convinced O'Hara would have the commitment/patience necessary to do that.

[Yard of Pace]

I love Mick and if Mick likes him then that's good enough for me. I'd say he'll wait until we qualify or not before declaring though. He seems the sort.

[DannyInvincible]

Hmm, Mick's gut-test over Stutts' gut-test? Controversial.

[TrapAPony]

If any player can come in and add to the squad then I'm all for it.

[Stuttgart88]

Stutts' gut would be more tolerant of a quality central midfielder than a late declarer in any other position. It would still have an issue, but nothing Milk of Magnesia mightn't sort out.

[French Toasht]

To be honest I used to be a lot more on the moral high horse side of things a few years ago and would have 100% said no straight up to the likes of O'Hara and Zat Knight etc.

But since 1994, we have had 7 qualification campaigns and been successful in only one of them. There have been so many glorious failures, so many play-off defeats, so many so near but yet so far moments and the simple fact is our squad has just been short of the quality required for qualification to these tournaments. If O'Hara, Pennant, Nolan, Noble etc improve our squad, despite their motivations, lets be having them. Lets be honest here, Liam Lawrence would have had equally as much desire to play for England as a kid and only decided to play for Ireland when he realised the possibility of him representing England was no longer on the cards. The only difference between him and the other named players is that he never outwardly expressed those thoughts.

I guess I'm a sell out, but I'm a sell out that wants to see us qualify for and compete at tournaments, and if these players can add to the chances of achieving that objective then I'm all for them.

[geysir]

O'Hara wouldn't temp me. That would be as grubby as a Bertie Aherne brown paper bag.
But for the sake of my country and only that, I'd turn a blind eye to a midfielder who meets Stutts' standards.

[gastric]

O' Hara IMO would be a great addition. He is creative, works hard and has the potential to be a leader. Put him together with Meyler and we have a midfield that can eventually replace Whelan and Andrews. As I have posted recently on another thread, Trap needs to get players onboard to increase our resources and be careful of his public utterances. Unity not division in the ranks is essential as we continue the Euro Campaign and start to think about a squad for the next World Cup.

[Noelys Guitar]

I'm still convinced Trapatonni goes public for a reason. He went public on Keane and Given not too long ago about the need for both players to be playing first team football. In Keane's case he went a little further suggesting younger players might come through. Keane plays one of his best games for Ireland last Saturday and Given has an excellent game as well. Maybe Gibson, McCarthy, Wilson and Walters will come back even better players when the new season restarts. The English game particulary rewards the mediocre like no other league and it is almost unique for a manager to go criticising his own players in public. Perhaps we need more of that not less.

[DannyInvincible]

Just came across this blog piece written by Cathal Dervin on the "no-shows" before the Macedonia game: http://www.irishcentral.com/story/sp...122936358.html

He makes a few sweeping assumptions though.

There’s a load of them missing by the way. Some have genuine excuses -- Richard Dunne is suspended and Damien Duff, Keiren Westwood and Kevin Doyle are all genuinely injured.

Others have claimed injuries without having them checked out by the Irish team doctor, notably Jonathon Walters.

And then there’s the no-shows, the players like Anthony Stokes, Marc Wilson, James McCarthy and, now, Darron Gibson who just didn’t make it.

I think that's entirely unfair on all those latter players, especially Walters, and barring maybe Stokes, to single them out for criticism that isn't even based on fact. He goes on to accuse them of treachery which should neither forgiven or forgotten...

[Sullivinho]

treachery which should neither forgiven or forgotten

Between guff like that and 20 page 'who shot JR!?' threads (elsewhere), I say start the new season this weekend.

[Junior]

Some great posts in this thread lads, interesting stuff.

Wouldn't surprise me if Trap goes extremely narrow limiting the space in the middle, forcing Russia to play totally around us, rather than through and then out the back of us. How does he do that? Does he sacrifice the wingers? McGeady has to play because for all his faults, he is genuinely getting to a level now where he draws fouls to the level Duff was at, while he is more than capable of running deep at opponents with the ball, creating opportunities for others.

If he is to jettison the wingers, then surely he has to pick somewhat attacking full-backs, Ward and Coleman, or full backs capable of using the ball sufficiently in the middle and top 3rd - Foley and Clark perhaps? Which leads on to the next possibility - the use of John O'Shea or Kev Foley as a shield behind a midfield three or two?

Something like:

---------------------------Given--------------------------

FB-------------Dunne---------------Ledger-------------Fb

---------------------------Shield--------------------------

--------------------Andrews-------Whelan-----------------

----------------McGeady------------Keane----------------

---------------------------Doyle--------------------------

Something that has to be remembered about Dublin - we started like a train, could have been one up, and then absolutely gifted them a goal (Whatever about Whelan being blindsided, Given was totally at fault to begin with), which then allowed them to dictate the next hours football.

I am no expert on how Russia line out but to me this type of formation wouldnt suit us one bit. Russia will have the lions share of the ball in Moscow, they have technically gifted players out wide and will be more than happy to make use of the abundance of space we would give them out there. Resulting in us being stretched out wide in order to put the tackles in / gain possession and hey presto we are back to a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 formation anyway. You say you wouldnt be surprised but I am assuming you are only talking hypothetcially anyway as Trap will not be moving away from the 4-4-2 anytime soon and certainly not in a game of this importance. If we do beat Slovakia in Dublin - This game will be absolutely massive.


On the other issue, any player worth his salt will now personally speak with Trappatoni to confirm his attendance or communicate his non-attendance. Regardless of what your club spokesman or medical staff say they were going to do, you would just do it yourself, in case. Its what I would do anyway.

[Metrostars]

To be honest I used to be a lot more on the moral high horse side of things a few years ago and would have 100% said no straight up to the likes of O'Hara and Zat Knight etc.

But since 1994, we have had 7 qualification campaigns and been successful in only one of them. There have been so many glorious failures, so many play-off defeats, so many so near but yet so far moments and the simple fact is our squad has just been short of the quality required for qualification to these tournaments. If O'Hara, Pennant, Nolan, Noble etc improve our squad, despite their motivations, lets be having them. Lets be honest here, Liam Lawrence would have had equally as much desire to play for England as a kid and only decided to play for Ireland when he realised the possibility of him representing England was no longer on the cards. The only difference between him and the other named players is that he never outwardly expressed those thoughts.

I guess I'm a sell out, but I'm a sell out that wants to see us qualify for and compete at tournaments, and if these players can add to the chances of achieving that objective then I'm all for them.

What if by some chance we win the next two qualifiers and we won the group to qualify for Euro 2012. O'Hara, Nolan etc might declare then. Would you be in favor of calling them up or stick with the likes of Andrews etc who got us there?

I don't mind taking on someone with an Irish Granny hidden somewhere but not if they are taking their sweet time over it. These guys have had ample time to declare already. If it means not qualifying then so be it.

[jbyrne]

What if by some chance we win the next two qualifiers and we won the group to qualify for Euro 2012. O'Hara, Nolan etc might declare then. Would you be in favor of calling them up or stick with the likes of Andrews etc who got us there?

i am a great believer in squad morale. when keane was gone from wc 2002 look at how our two ctre mids played above themselves and we got to the last 16 and should have made the 1/4 finals. bringing in late-comers who have spent an age thinking about joining us could have the opposite affect and ruin the hard fought squad morale we have recently acquired. i dont think we need ohara

[DannyInvincible]

What if by some chance we win the next two qualifiers and we won the group to qualify for Euro 2012. O'Hara, Nolan etc might declare then. Would you be in favor of calling them up or stick with the likes of Andrews etc who got us there?

Just to be certain on Nolan; he confirmed relatively recently that he doesn't actually qualify for us. He spoke about being a generation out or something.

[Crosby87]

Off topic but lets say we make Euro. What players likely would retire from Int'l play after the Tourney? Is it possible Dunne, Keane, Given, Duff, and maybe O'Shea will all need to be replaced at the same time? Obviously KK will be out by then also.
Hopefully some of these guys get their heads screwed on straight so we have options to replace them with if that were to happen, especially throwing injuries into the mix.

[the bear]

jaysus it would be a disaster to lose the 6 of them at the same time

i cant see any bar kilbane leaving after this campaign and id say he'd need to be pushed. but they will be goin sooner rather than later hopefully new leaders will emerge

[Sullivinho]

Off topic but lets say we make Euro. What players likely would retire from Int'l play after the Tourney? Is it possible Dunne, Keane, Given, Duff, and maybe O'Shea will all need to be replaced at the same time? Obviously KK will be out by then also.
Hopefully some of these guys get their heads screwed on straight so we have options to replace them with if that were to happen, especially throwing injuries into the mix.

Putting myself in their boots, if there's a World Cup happening in Brazil in less than two years and I've either played in just one previously or never tasted that experience...I'm not thinking about retirement just yet. I want to pack it in after the third place playoff in Rio. But who knows what these guys are planning or who and what might emerge in the interim.

I'd like to think that Shay, the eldest, will see fit to partake in some of that longevity that keepers enjoy. Ala Seaman in '02 but minus the Brazilian cross/shot flying over his aged head. Hopefully Robbie will be along while records remain to be broken. Of the five, I'd consider him irreplaceable though. Unless we're incredibly fortunate, I doubt some kid with the capacity for 50+ international goals is gonna share the revolving door with him on his way out. Whereas right now you could tentatively suggest that (for example) McGeady and Clark have at least the potential to inherit the mantles of Duff and Dunne respectively.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't see any of those retiring after Euro 2012. Simple as that.