QuotePlus Pakistan might have demanded him back as he'd been on their territory.. a lot simpler to get the thing over with.
Good riddance to him.
He also admitted to the acts.Originally Posted by brendy_éire
I think a fake trial would've done more to further his cause, so they took the neccesary action.
As a bleeding heart liberal, I've no problem with Bin Laden being killed, or any other war-mongerers
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Plus Pakistan might have demanded him back as he'd been on their territory.. a lot simpler to get the thing over with.
Good riddance to him.
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I suspect he would also have plenty to say about western governments' assistance to him and his people in building the mujahideen. Far more convenient just to kill him. I'd imagine the main reason is to minimise the propaganda/martyrdom element though.
They say that they killed him because he resisted arrest, or at least that's what I've seen reported. Of course the likelihood of them having the power of arrest in Pakistan is very slim anyway.
If you were Ossama Bin Ladin, would you surrender to US troops? I've no doubt the US prefers it this way, but I find it quite believable that he died before being captured.
As for the various conspiracy theories, whatever the exact details, I'm confident he's dead. It'd be to humiliating to countenance him releasing a video next week with a copy of yesterday's USA Today.
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I couldn't give a flying feck whether he's dead or alive, I just won't believe he is until I see or hear independent evidence. I wouldn't trust the americans at this stage as far as I'd throw them, Obama or no.
Robert Fisk in the papers had an interesting thing at the end of one piece today saying he got 3 good sources questioning if it was not a body double they killed - stirring it Im sure, but could you imagine the embarrassment if he wasnt killed and he appeared on another one of his videos (or even if a body double did) Until there are pics then all bets are off!!
As for the execution style assassination - not bothered either way but this kind of makes him a martyr as he was killed in action whereas if they brought him to trial then he would be shown to be the maniac he is? No?
I'm not sure where the information originates from but it seems to be accepted that Obama issued a shoot to kill order, so there was never any intention of bringing him back alive. I understand this is standard for all "most wanted" terrorists.
I don't know. There's no reports suggesting he was armed or attempted to fight his way out.
Has there ever been any doubt he was a maniac? People in the middle east didn't support him because he was an intellectual making hugely valid arguments; they supported him because he fought against and hurt the West in a way nobody ever had before.
True, but look how the Nurnberg trials are shown as a good way to beat down any Holocaust deniers.
The usual conspiracy cr*p? "Body double"? Can they have a DNA double as well?
Not sure about this burial at sea though. Seems a strange one. I can understand how they wouldn't like a place of pilgrimage but with all the conspiracy mongers in the world, many will believe he is living in Brazil with Elvis. If they are happy they got him, so am I.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
It would be interesting to note the public reaction were a crack team of Afghans or Iraqis to burst into the White House and shoot Obama in the noodle.
Assuming the Americans actually got the job done this time, it's all super convenient.
I'm not sure how much "popular support" he had in the Middle East, a large share of the recent uprisings in the region have had a lot of secularists involved (besides the ones that aren't outside ordered coups but I digress) and in a lot of overtly Muslim countries there have been crackdowns on his organisation as their antics would be considered to be just not cricket by the cozy powers that be.People in the middle east didn't support him because he was an intellectual making hugely valid arguments; they supported him because he fought against and hurt the West in a way nobody ever had before.
This is the latest contender for photo of dead Osama: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4e2_1304436213
Nuremberg was a fact-finding process as much as one of justice, and plenty of Nazis still got away. How much more are we going to learn from the guy who's spent the last 9.5 years telling everyone he did 9/11?True, but look how the Nurnberg trials are shown as a good way to beat down any Holocaust deniers.
Well, yeah, "support" is a pretty broad concept. But you see it in Palestine: support for terrorism fluctuates wildly depending on the political climate. The recent uprisings aren't only good because they're popular - they're also good because it shows people in the arab world are less fixated on the "evil empire" and more on the devil on their doorstep.I'm not sure how much "popular support" he had in the Middle East, a large share of the recent uprisings in the region have had a lot of secularists involved (besides the ones that aren't outside ordered coups but I digress) and in a lot of overtly Muslim countries there have been crackdowns on his organisation as their antics would be considered to be just not cricket by the cozy powers that be.
He swore he'd never be brought out alive, so I suspect he made sure they shot him when they got the chance. When the Taliban are accepting he's dead, I think that's enough confirmation..
About 13 years too late when Clinton had a chance to get him after the Embassy bombings.
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I don't see the need, and I would prefer there to be no photographic evidence released. Do we demand evidence of all war prisoners captured and killed? Any evidence will be insensitive, gruesome and is more likely to be a hindrance than a help. Obama and co don't conduct 9-month operations, and hold news conferences at 11.30 on Sunday nights unless it's big news, and are crystal clear certain that they had got him.
They had his body for a number of hours before Obama spoke. About the burial, he was transported by ultra-fast machinery to an aircraft carrier, given a Muslim funeral and buried at sea. It can be and was all done in very quick time, and handled very well, given who it was and the hatred the USA Military have for him.
Last edited by mypost; 03/05/2011 at 6:55 PM.
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a voice of reason. Thank you. Of course he is effing dead.
I like high energy football. A little bit rock and roll. Many finishes instead of waiting for the perfect one.
They do realise that 90 per cent of the world's surface can now be interpreted as a shrine to Bin Laden?
Surely as good a time as any to play a bluff.
In 2009, Angelo M. Codevilla of 'The American Spectator' reckoned Bin Laden had been dead since around 2002 considering he was seriously ill when he went on the run and was last seen by a reputable source in 2001.
And so forth...Negative evidence alone compels the conclusion that Osama is long since dead. Since October 2001, when Al Jazeera's Tayseer Alouni interviewed him, no reputable person reports having seen him—not even after multiple-blind journeys through intermediaries. The audio and video tapes alleged to be Osama's never convinced impartial observers. The guy just does not look like Osama. Some videos show him with a Semitic aquiline nose, while others show him with a shorter, broader one. Next to that, differences between colors and styles of beard are small stuff.
Nor does the tapes' Osama sound like Osama. In 2007 Switzerland's Dalle Molle Institute for Artificial Intelligence, which does computer voice recognition for bank security, compared the voices on 15 undisputed recordings of Osama with the voices on 15 subsequent ones attributed to Osama, to which they added two by native Arab speakers who had trained to imitate him and were reading his writings. All of the purported Osama recordings (with one falling into a gray area) differed clearly from one another as well as from the genuine ones. By contrast, the CIA found all the recordings authentic. It is hard to imagine what methodology might support this conclusion.
Also in 2007, Professor Bruce Lawrence, who heads Duke University's religious studies program, argued in a book on Osama's messages that their increasingly secular language is inconsistent with Osama's Wahhabism. Lawrence noted as well that the Osama figure in the December 2001 video, which many have taken as his assumption of responsibility for 9/11, wears golden rings—decidedly un-Wahhabi. He also writes with the wrong hand. Lawrence concluded that the messages are fakes, and not very good ones. The CIA has judged them all good.
Above all, whereas Elvis impersonators at least sing the King's signature song, "You ain't nutin' but a hound dawg," the words on the Osama tapes differ substantively from what the real Osama used to say—especially about the most important matter. On September 16, 2001, on Al Jazeera, Osama said of 9/11: "I stress that I have not carried out this act, which appears to have been carried out by individuals with their own motivation." Again, in the October interview with Tayseer Alouni, he limited his connection with 9/11 to ideology: "If they mean, or if you mean, that there is a link as a result of our incitement, then it is true. We incite…" But in the so-called "confession video" that the CIA found in December, the Osama figure acts like the chief conspirator. The fact that the video had been made for no self-evident purpose except perhaps to be found by the Americans should have raised suspicion. Its substance, the celebratory affirmation of a responsibility for 9/11 that Osama had denied, should also have weighed against the video's authenticity. Why would he wait to indict himself until after U.S. forces and allies had secured Afghanistan? But the CIA acted as if it had caught Osama red-handed.
The CIA should also have taken seriously the accounts of Osama's death. On December 26, 2001, Fox News interviewed a Taliban source who claimed that he had attended Osama's funeral, along with some 30 associates. The cause of death, he said, had been pulmonary infection. The New York Times on July 11, 2002, reported the consensus of a story widespread in Pakistan that Osama had succumbed the previous year to his long-standing nephritis. Then, Benazir Bhutto—as well connected as anyone with sources of information on the Afghan-Pakistani border—mentioned casually in a BBC interview that Osama had been murdered by his associates. Murder is as likely as natural death. Osama's deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, is said to have murdered his own predecessor, Abdullah Azzam, Osama's original mentor. Also, because Osama's capture by the Americans would have endangered everyone with whom he had ever associated, any and all intelligence services who had ever worked with him had an interest in his death.
The scenes of Americans celebrating in the streets have been a bit surreal and the sad thing about them is that they verge on mirroring the sort of scenes witnessed in the streets of the Middle East after 9/11 that were, of course, roundly condemned.
I notice that beard is still undergoing the greying process, just like Bin Laden's was as far back as 1998.
Hmm... Did he dye it like that?
You would have thought the US military would have wanted a talk with him, aye. Maybe "burial at sea" is double-speak for "endless waterboarding" now...
Lots of people were ill in 2002, they're still alive today. Bin Laden set out to kill indiscriminantly whoever he could, whenever he could. The Americans go in to take out militants. He is a militant, and a lot more than the average militant.
The operation on Sunday was a targeted operation. They had intelligence going back 9 months to last weekend. Bin Laden was given the chance to surrender, a chance he afforded none of his victims. When he wouldn't surrender, he paid the price. DNA tests were done on him to confirm he was him. Only when done, the Americans announced what happened. Job done, move on.
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Nothing about this adds up, and when you hear the yanks saying how great human torture is because it gave them the information to kill another human being(s), it really does smack of trying to justify the complete depths of depravity they continue to commit.
Points to remember:
1. Osama Bin Laden was supported and backed by American covert agencies to fight against Soviet troops and civvies in Afghanistan in the "war on communism".
2. Osama Bin Laden was hopping around in trouble spots to support anti-communist groups in places like Yemen, Oman etc.
3. PBL's nose was seriously out of joint when the Yanks refused to allow his fighters defend the holy lands when Iraq made a beeline for Kuwait, but he was still active sending hundreds of killers/holy warriors with US support to Yugoslavia, Somalia etc.
4. The US lost communism as a boogey, islamic fundies suddenly came on line and one of their own creatures came on the scene.
5. After a series of mess ups and bully boy contacts the previous buddies of the US (ie the Taliban) told them to stick their pipeline and Osama hits the US and disappears.
6. 10 years on he turns up in a mega expensive house, with no telephone or internet, next to the Pakistan Military Academy (their Westpoint - not the gym) where the US have their trainers etc.
7. Obama and his people still hadn't closed their domestic torture camps (remember young boys are now in their mid twenties having been held without trial for a decade) and his ratings have dropped and he needs a good news story.
8. Their boogey man is sitting pretty in his protected haven, but he's now surplus to requirements, so they off him and get rid of the body. This is a common tactic throughout history - look at how Saddam Hussein was hurried to the next world, the dead tell no tales and it's handy is Osama is in protective custody all along.
So the US have their oil fields, they have the world quaking and they can still pretend to be so good and evenhanded.
Ultimately, no matter what, the man is still someone's son, someone's father.
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