LOI in Europe 2011

**harleyleeds** · 27/07/2011, 9:17 PM

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

But your team would probably benefit in the long term. Why bother competing at all without ambition? Your club's success is always judged against the standard of its opponents, so of course other teams still matter, if not mattering to you emotionally. You may as well be competing in the Sligo/Leitrim District League and you can win every game you like there if you're not bothered about improving your lot and playing at as high a standard as possible in the long run. Sure what else could ever matter so long as you're always winning?...

No long term benefit in it and your making my point with Your club's success is always judged against the standard of its opponents cos if they get millions then they are away and next year more just like celtic/rangers

**harleyleeds** · 27/07/2011, 9:19 PM

for the record i watched the game and thought Shams did really well and do not begrudge them that for their hard work .

**redarmyfaction** · 27/07/2011, 9:21 PM

Its a double edged sword you want LOI clubs to do well in Europe, but you dont want those clubs to dominate domesticly as a consequence.

I think I am not alone among LOI supporters to have lost most interest in the EPL years ago, soul destroying now, I remember the Big Match ended just in time for us to nip down to the Showgs, dont you hate it when the things you love are adopted and therefore devalued by the ignorant.

**DannyInvincible** · 27/07/2011, 9:24 PM

Originally Posted by harleyleeds

No long term benefit in it and your making my point with Your club's success is always judged against the standard of its opponents cos if they get millions then they are away and next year more just like celtic/rangers

Well, I guess it depends on what level you want to be competing at ultimately. So long as you're content to have no ambition and wallow in mediocrity, we're singing from a different hymn sheet. If someone sets the pace it naturally spurs others on to compete and rise to the challenge. I don't see how anyone could seriously object to having to rise to the challenge of increased competition in sport.

**harleyleeds** · 27/07/2011, 9:31 PM

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Well, I guess it depends on what level you want to be competing at ultimately. So long as you're content to have no ambition and wallow in mediocrity, we're singing from a different hymn sheet. If someone sets the pace it naturally spurs others on to compete and rise to the challenge. I don't see how anyone could seriously object to having to rise to the challenge increased competition in sport.

Unless all teams get alot of money the level wont get better no matter who sets the pace again look at scotland. Im not wallowing in anything Sligo Rovers are getting better as a club all the time and its got nothing to do with any money gained by shams or anyone else. What challange if one team has 5 million to spend over all others? PS Rovers are top of the league nothing mediocre about that.

**paul_oshea** · 27/07/2011, 9:32 PM

I think the point is they do want to see increased competition and at a higher level but in a laddering effect(see investopedia) as opposed to one sharp incline. They want it gradually, but to be honest i think the way LOI teams have been competing this year and the last few years it has been more gradual, and assuming everything keeps going the way it is, in the next few years within 4 possibly, and a bit of luck that breakthrough will be made, with the Europa league most likely. There may well be a sharp turn there though, but if most clubs are competitive up until that point, its not to say the same club will keep winning, as they could lose the league title the following year, and it paves the way for the other Domestic winner to get into the position too etc, increasing the circle.....

From a business point of view, its not something to be feared, it should be embraced. But business and sport for fans don't ever mix well.

**PartySaint** · 27/07/2011, 9:33 PM

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Well, I guess it depends on what level you want to be competing at ultimately. So long as you're content to have no ambition and wallow in mediocrity, we're singing from a different hymn sheet. If someone sets the pace it naturally spurs others on to compete and rise to the challenge. I don't see how anyone could seriously object to having to rise to the challenge of increased competition in sport.

If a team got to the group stages of Europe it would mean lots of money, They only way others could compete is to get lots of money and unless your mypost everyone knows that doesn't grow on trees, Its right for fans of clubs to not want other club(s) getting into the group stages of a European competition

**harleyleeds** · 27/07/2011, 9:35 PM

But business and sport for fans don't ever mix well.

truest words ever

**Kingdom** · 27/07/2011, 9:41 PM

Originally Posted by PartySaint

If a team got to the group stages of Europe it would mean lots of money, They only way others could compete is to get lots of money and unless your mypost everyone knows that doesn't grow on trees, Its right for fans of clubs to not want other club(s) getting into the group stages of a European competition

Genuine question here.
Say Rovers get to the group stages of the el. They get lots of money (colossal by loi standards). What is the fear? Is it that they'll cherry pick the best players in the league, or that they'll bring in top class (by loi standards) players from further afield?

Surely there are only so many players they can cherry-pick within the league anyway?

**paul_oshea** · 27/07/2011, 9:47 PM

Originally Posted by harleyleeds

But business and sport for fans don't ever mix well.

truest words ever

But sometimes they need to, there are two extremes one horrible being the whole commercialism of the EPL. Thats for another day.

But there is a happy medium, and certainly LOI sides aren't near the medium yet. The simplest answer is more exposure to the league will indirectly increase all commercial streams, and if exposed wisely by all concerned will generate more money for all clubs. More exposure comes from playing bigger teams(as we have seen in the past) and more often(getting to the group stages). Now its up to individual clubs to use that however they see fit, but any innovative members of the clubs will/would find ways. In the meantime it will give quick wins financially(gains) to the club(s) that get to that stage. But other clubs can more than capitalise on this. Its just narrow-minded/insecure/parish politics/ignorant but most importantly insular and naive to not want this to happen. Its your club yes, but it can be other peoples club too. You don't own the club, you don't have sole right over it.

**Jicked** · 27/07/2011, 9:51 PM

Originally Posted by harleyleeds

if Shams qualify for group it means a sh**load of money for them so screw the coefficiant

It means a ****load of money for the league. Attitudes like yours just shows how nearsighted so many people are in Irish football, at every level. If we, or anyone else did make it a group stage, you're talking about millions being pumped in to the domestic game. Remember, we can't sign everyone, but you will see advertising increased across the league, ticket sales go up everywhere Rovers play after barstoolers get to know the players, more games being picked for TV, bringing a higher profile and more money etc.

It was very encouraging to hear our chairman talk after the last leg. Where most directors might be rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of another cheque, Rochey made it pretty clear that just as big a prize was the fact we'd play 4 more games, and so be all over the media for four more weeks, increasing the profile of the club and bringing in all the various spin-offs that entails. It was nice to see someone look a little bit further ahead.

**harleyleeds** · 27/07/2011, 9:53 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

But sometimes they need to, there are two extremes one horrible being the whole commercialism of the EPL. Thats for another day.

But there is a happy medium, and certainly LOI sides aren't near the medium yet. The simplest answer is more exposure to the league will indirectly increase all commercial streams, and if exposed wisely by all concerned will generate more money for all clubs. More exposure comes from playing bigger teams(as we have seen in the past) and more often(getting to the group stages). Now its up to individual clubs to use that however they see fit, but any innovative members of the clubs will/would find ways. In the meantime it will give quick wins financially(gains) to the club(s) that get to that stage. But other clubs can more than capitalise on this. Its just narrow-minded/insecure/parish politics/ignorant but most importantly insular and naive to not want this to happen. Its your club yes, but it can be other peoples club too. You don't own the club, you don't have sole right over it.

look id love all teams to get an injection of cash but untill it happens i dont want any team to get so much as to demolish the rest as i feel this would actually be bad for the league as all the rest of the teams would end up like galway and the interest in the league would actually suffer.

**paul_oshea** · 27/07/2011, 9:57 PM

But thats the point, im not so sure it would happen. If other people saw rival clubs playing the interest in the league would certainly increase, but its then up to the individual clubs to appeal to those people to come watch their team. You cant just sit in your room and curse people or whatever because they don't come down. Entice them and they will, sometimes it has to start like that unfortunately. Build it and they will come....

**harleyleeds** · 27/07/2011, 9:58 PM

Originally Posted by Jicked

It means a ****load of money for the league. Attitudes like yours just shows how nearsighted so many people are in Irish football, at every level. If we, or anyone else did make it a group stage, you're talking about millions being pumped in to the domestic game. Remember, we can't sign everyone, but you will see advertising increased across the league, ticket sales go up everywhere Rovers play after barstoolers get to know the players, more games being picked for TV, bringing a higher profile and more money etc.

It was very encouraging to hear our chairman talk after the last leg. Where most directors might be rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of another cheque, Rochey made it pretty clear that just as big a prize was the fact we'd play 4 more games, and so be all over the media for four more weeks, increasing the profile of the club and bringing in all the various spin-offs that entails. It was nice to see someone look a little bit further ahead.

What does that mean , that everyone would pay to see the great shams team that this money would buy and this money from the two games a season against you would bring the rest up? Other than that where is the money for the league coming from? Nearsighted i dont think so.

**harleyleeds** · 27/07/2011, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

But thats the point, im not so sure it would happen. If other people saw rival clubs playing the interest in the league would certainly increase, but its then up to the individual clubs to appeal to those people to come watch their team. You cant just sit in your room and curse people or whatever because they don't come down. Entice them and they will, sometimes it has to start like that unfortunately. Build it and they will come....

OK I just have to disagree and continue to use scotland as an example it hasnt happened there.

**mypost** · 27/07/2011, 10:03 PM

It doesn't matter who the first, the fifth, the twenty-second, or the 45th club to make the group stages are. It's nice to be first, but it doesn't matter that much in the long run.

As for the money we get: People said we'd get a load of cash against Real Madrid, and we had a competitive league. People said we'd get a load of cash against Juventus, and we had a competitive league. People said we'd get a load of cash from this, and it's a competitive league. Most of the money we earn should we win, will have to be forked out on arrangements for later rounds, including finding another ground for them.

You saw their club's reaction after the game, they're worried and frustrated at the result, and so they should be. They know they're in a ding-dong cup tie now, and if they're going to go through, they'll have to work very hard over here. We're still underdogs, but far from out of our depth at this level. We're 90 minutes from a group stage, bring it on.

**paul_oshea** · 27/07/2011, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by harleyleeds

OK I just have to disagree and continue to use scotland as an example it hasnt happened there.

Its a different scenario there, and i think thats pretty obvious. Rangers and Celtic have a huge fanbase and always have had to start with. Interest from not just ireland but all over the world. The whole sectarian thing worked wonders for them and as they were two clubs of the biggest city in scotland they were always going to be an elite, and they always have been. That would not be the case for a LOI club qualifying, as no club in ireland has a huge following anyway.

Norway would be a better example, but for a few years rosenborg were getting into the CL regularly, not so much now.

**Kingdom** · 27/07/2011, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by mypost

We're 90 minutes from a group stage, bring it on.

That's really what it's all about. It's brilliant to read that.

**paul_oshea** · 27/07/2011, 10:22 PM

Ya it is, but any team are always 90 mins away from a group stage when they are in the CL qualifying round 3 with the 2nd leg left to play.....that makes no odds.

Being 1-0 down just means its more difficult than being 0-0 or 1-1 or 2- 1 or 0-1 etc and less difficult than 2-0 or 3-1 etc etc....

If they were 0-1 up already then ya that statement would make for great reading, in the current situation it means nothing really.

**HulaHoop** · 27/07/2011, 10:25 PM

All this nonsense about how a team would dominate for years if they got the millions in prize money from getting to the group stages is very annoying. Obviously none of you remember the last 10 or so years when we had Shelbourne spending millions, Cork spending millions, Drogheda spending millions, Bohs spending millions and even Pats spent a few million when Kellegher took over. Now did any of these dominate forever? No they didn't, they all won leagues alright but dominate - no. If Rovers or any club get to the groups stages in europe the resulting prize money would have no more of an effect on us than it did when Shels/Bohs/Drogheda/Cork/Pats had millions pumped into them over the last decade. The only difference being we might spend the money more wisely than the other clubs did.