Will Keane F Preston North End b.1993

Originally Posted by SkStu

What team would you build around Keane so?

I've briefed Stephen. Watch this space.

Saw a fair few remarks around the time of the Lithuania game from Wigan fans that he was used wrong by Ireland. Doesn't play as an out and out striker for Wigan, drops a little deeper and plays more of a number 10 role.

Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

So you were suggesting that Kenny isn't picking Keane (despite Kenny being the one who called him up and started him in our most recent game) because the fans don't like him enough because he wasn't born in Ireland?

He will play again. If he doesn't make an impact for Ireland it won't matter how many goals he scores at club level though. I like him and thought he offered something different against Belgium.

I've made my point about Keane. You disagree - fair enough. My other comment was on Keane's popularity (or lack of) within the fanbase. You disagree, again fair enough but please don't extrapolate what's not there. Your ally introduced Kenny, not me. Can I go now?

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Saw a fair few remarks around the time of the Lithuania game from Wigan fans that he was used wrong by Ireland. Doesn't play as an out and out striker for Wigan, drops a little deeper and plays more of a number 10 role.

It was in those deeper positions that I thought he looked more useful in his brief cameo v Belgium. Doesn't look like he likes playing much further forward with his back to goal but he looked like he knew how to take the ball in tight space and move it well.

Where does he score most of his goals?

Originally Posted by Snapshot

I've made my point about Keane. You disagree - fair enough. My other comment was on Keane's popularity (or lack of) within the fanbase. You disagree, again fair enough but please don't extrapolate what's not there. Your ally introduced Kenny, not me. Can I go now?

So your posts about Kenny weren't about Kenny? Yeah you can go. You successfully united a Rovers and Bohs fan to be fair. Not a bad little Saturday.

Originally Posted by Snapshot

I've briefed Stephen. Watch this space.

No seriously. You come on here taking little digs at the fans, the “system” and that it should be sacrificed for Keane as a guaranteed starter. What formation and team do you think we should put out to get the most out of him?

FWIW, I like Keane and happy to have a decent goalscorer (albeit only proven at a lower level) in the squad fighting for his place. I just don’t think he’s a guaranteed starter and it rankles a little that him not walking into the team and throwing the long term plan out the window is being used to take a dig at SK. And the fans.

Originally Posted by SkStu

No seriously. You come on here taking little digs at the fans, the “system” and that it should be sacrificed for Keane as a guaranteed starter. What formation and team do you think we should put out to get the most out of him?

FWIW, I like Keane and happy to have a decent goalscorer (albeit only proven at a lower level) in the squad fighting for his place. I just don’t think he’s a guaranteed starter and it rankles a little that him not walking into the team and throwing the long term plan out the window is being used to take a dig at SK. And the fans.

I'll put a team up before the next match when I "come on here". You look on whatever I say as pejorative. You call criticisms "digs" etc. Accept everyone won't always agree with you.

We have a rule here gentle sirs, debate the post, not the poster.
This is not aimed at anyone in particular, just a reminder.

Originally Posted by Snapshot

I'll put a team up before the next match when I "come on here". You look on whatever I say as pejorative. You call criticisms "digs" etc. Accept everyone won't always agree with you.

I’m totally fine with differences of opinion and love some healthy debate but, in that spirit, I’m entitled to ask questions to understand better what you are seeing that’s different to what I am seeing. But you’ve avoided one simple question twice now so I’ll leave it at that.

“He deserves an automatic starting spot but SK and the fanboys don’t like him because he wasn’t born in Ireland” is a take that needs some additional explanation or evidence. That’s all.

Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

Saw a fair few remarks around the time of the Lithuania game from Wigan fans that he was used wrong by Ireland. Doesn't play as an out and out striker for Wigan, drops a little deeper and plays more of a number 10 role.

It might be interesting to try playing him off of Idah or Obafeme in the summer. You'd want a good wide player up there with them though, or we'd ask too much of the wingbacks.

Originally Posted by John83

It might be interesting to try playing him off of Idah or Obafeme in the summer. You'd want a good wide player up there with them though, or we'd ask too much of the wingbacks.

It might just be a case that he doesn't fit into Kennys system, and while there's other strikers out there who do fit, it's probably not worth changing things to fit a player who's scored goals at League One level.

At the moment as we've found some goal scoring form whether accidently stumbled upon or a shrewd tactical change the case for having a league 1 striker scoring freely isn't as strong as you suggest, but it would be prudent to have tried and tested another option that may well be needed in the future and within a game/games.

Originally Posted by SkStu

I’m totally fine with differences of opinion and love some healthy debate but, in that spirit, I’m entitled to ask questions to understand better what you are seeing that’s different to what I am seeing. But you’ve avoided one simple question twice now so I’ll leave it at that.

“He deserves an automatic starting spot but SK and the fanboys don’t like him because he wasn’t born in Ireland” is a take that needs some additional explanation or evidence. That’s all.

Could you please call up the post in which the above direct quote, which you attribute to me, appears. Thanks.

No. It’s a summary of what you said across quite a few posts. Feel free to correct my interpretation.

Originally Posted by SkStu

No. It’s a summary of what you said across quite a few posts. Feel free to correct my interpretation.

A textbook example of turning the subjective into the pejorative: “SK and the fanboys don’t like him”.

I stand firmly by my opinion as stated. I think Keane should start in the NL. His record and versatility deserves it. All fans are biased towards certain players for various reasons. Nothing new there. I did not bring Kenny into the discussion and, though not a fan, I believe him a fair person. But like all managers he has favourites (IMO) and in this context if a hot-prospect Keane had been Irish-born, raised and coached by Kenny before injury plagued a major part of his fledgling career I believe his belated chances following a standout season would be enhanced. Human nature.
A storm in a teacup.

Originally Posted by Snapshot

A textbook example of turning the subjective into the pejorative: “SK and the fanboys don’t like him”.

I stand firmly by my opinion as stated. I think Keane should start in the NL. His record and versatility deserves it. All fans are biased towards certain players for various reasons. Nothing new there. I did not bring Kenny into the discussion and, though not a fan, I believe him a fair person. But like all managers he has favourites (IMO) and in this context if a hot-prospect Keane had been Irish-born, raised and coached by Kenny before injury plagued a major part of his fledgling career I believe his belated chances following a standout season would be enhanced. Human nature.
A storm in a teacup.

So you didn't bring Kenny into the discussion (despite saying you were talking about Kenny) but you want to now? And again, you think that Kenny would prefer Keane over e.g. Robinson if Keane had been Irish born?

Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

So you didn't bring Kenny into the discussion (despite saying you were talking about Kenny) but you want to now? And again, you think that Kenny would prefer Keane over e.g. Robinson if Keane had been Irish born?

skStu introduced Kenny in a post claiming I was only using the Keane issue to get at Kenny. I absolutely wasn’t. I believe that currently Keane should start on merit. I do not believe Kenny is biased, as explained above, but he’s the manager and If he doesn’t start Keane I will criticise him for the same reasons as would other posters who disagree with a selection.

Guys, you've made your points. Let's not make a big thing of it.

Originally Posted by Snapshot

like all managers he has favourites (IMO) and in this context if a hot-prospect Keane had been Irish-born, raised and coached by Kenny before injury plagued a major part of his fledgling career I believe his belated chances following a standout season would be enhanced. Human nature.
A storm in a teacup.

“raised and coached by Kenny“

The issue is, the underage players who were coached by Kenny are all ages 19-24 now. So they’re all very much on the upswing. Keane is 29.

As far as I remember, the only 2 players who played for Kenny at Dundalk are McGrath and Horgan, neither of whom made the last squad and then there’s James McClean who is a total different category with 90+ caps to his name, 150+ premier league appearances etc etc

Not much evidence of a non-irish born bias. The likes of Arter and O’Dowda have received some pretty favourable call ups, while Ciaran Clark was briefly harshly done by.

Originally Posted by elatedscum

“raised and coached by Kenny“

The issue is, the underage players who were coached by Kenny are all ages 19-24 now. So they’re all very much on the upswing. Keane is 29.

As far as I remember, the only 2 players who played for Kenny at Dundalk are McGrath and Horgan, neither of whom made the last squad and then there’s James McClean who is a total different category with 90+ caps to his name, 150+ premier league appearances etc etc

Not much evidence of a non-irish born bias. The likes of Arter and O’Dowda have received some pretty favourable call ups, while Ciaran Clark was briefly harshly done by.

1. Irish-born and raised - and coached by Kenny.

2. It was a hypothetical about Keane. I’m aware of the age differential.

Thanks.