Ireland ranked 14th in World

[Sheridan]

Sheridan. "More or less unbeatable"? Less, I think they'd say down Suisse way...

Yes, because one exception (or, more accurately, four in nineteen years) renders the phrase "more or less" invalid.

I suppose Ireland have just been lucky not to come up against quality opposition like Armenia, or that record might have taken a battering.

[Duncan Gardner]

Sheridan. I think we've already covered the 'NI aren't very good' topic exhaustively. As I've said here, we'll remain thus until we qualify for the finals

I'm genuinely puzzled why so many of your fans use us as a benchmark, since we're so poor. (And that's even before we get onto the sectarian halfwits with their 'occupied-six-counties-locked-my-granda-out-of-the-house' malarkey, not that I'm suggesting you're one of them). Why not Denmark, a country of roughly equivalent population? Is it because they usually qualify and you don't?

Davros. Let me explain this to you carefully. The references you quote (apart from your own, which are as charmingly incoherent as ever) stress Ireland's consistency in previous tournaments. Something I acknowledge explicitly and repeatedly. But now we're talking about THIS one. In which you've been less than tasty.

Which reminds me. Lunch.

[Sheridan]

Sheridan. I think we've already covered the 'NI aren't very good' topic exhaustively. As I've said here, we'll remain thus until we qualify for the finals

I'm genuinely puzzled why so many of your fans use us as a benchmark, since we're so poor. (And that's even before we get onto the sectarian halfwits with their 'occupied-six-counties-locked-my-granda-out-of-the-house' malarkey, not that I'm suggesting you're one of them).

To be honest, I thought (and think) that your arguments on this topic were just reflexive, irrational nonsense with no basis in fact. Once I'd exhausted the didactic route with no success, I decided to hit back in the same spirit

Why not Denmark, a country of roughly equivalent population? Is it because they usually qualify and you don't?

It's because the Danes decided they'd actually put the effort into building a football culture in their country, created a league of appropriate strength to the size of the nation from scratch, and are reaping the rewards. Whereas most muppets here couldn't be bothered with all that.

[gspain]

I think our world ranking is about right.

We were poor against both the Swiss and Russians however performances in recent friendlies and in WC2002 have been excellent.

The next qualifying campaign will tell a lot. I'm still concerned that the 2 biggest games we've played unde rBrian Kerr were the 2 games where we lacked fight and bottle yet we had it in spades for the friendlies. Runners up is the minimum acceptable in the group

[gspain]

BTW football is far and away the biggest sport in the country player wise which is what counts. Yes the gAA draw bigger crowds than our domestic football but we have far more players and consistently draw far bigger tv audiences as well.

[Littlest Hobo]

Concanta, I neither said nor inferred that. I think you are outside the top twenty in Europe- for which I offered plenty of evidence. It obviously follows from that, that you must be outside the top twenty in the World NOW- as I say, no-one disputes you were much better two years ago.

If you really think I'm talking rubbish, offer some evidence. Otherwise, keep shtum.

Davros- just to correct your claim that the RoI didn't enter the UEFA U-17, you were knocked out in the first qualifying stage by Austria, Switzerland and Belarus. Meanwhile, we were disposing of Croatia, Malta, Belgium, Scotland and Belarus again.

Sheridan. "More or less unbeatable"? Less, I think they'd say down Suisse way...

100 and what again My computer crashed before I could make it all that way to the end of the rankings list. Please remind me where the north are again????

Oh, Just to remind you, the Norths next friendly will be against our local the Black Bull. I'm presently clearin over a few issues with your FA, regarding the date, venue and tickets allocation. Discussions are coming along fine and theres a good chance it will get the go ahead.
I know you lot are pushing for a spot in the top one hundred, we need to exercise to lose the beer guts and are up for kicking the **** out of a few Huns. Also We need our new striker Pat 'the baker' Kelly to finally get off the mark, coz he's bloody awful He's an old git and all, with a gut the size of a whale.
It will be good for your man Healy to try his luck against our central man, Mickey 'The Chopper' Maguire. Now that won't be a pretty sight

I'm pushing for a home fixture for us at the 'Matador arena'.
What with your usual travelling contingency and our ferverant home support, I'm expecting about 70 or so to turn up.
The IFA are pretty keen, coz they will probably bag about 50 quid from the outing.

Get ready to rumble

[eirebhoy]

No-one's saying you're not consistent Mick, merely that over the last two years (who cares about the last 10?), you're self-evidently not one of the top twenty teams in Europe. You're not as good as Latvia, Slovenia, Wales, Norway or Scotland. You're still better than the occupied illegal six country sectarian statelet, you say? Well, fcukety diddle-doo and bully for ye!

I actually thought you were being sarcastic at first.

Now, by your logic, and this is 100% by your logic. Because France didn't get a point or score a goal in the last World Cup means that as of 30th June, Senegal, Uruguay, Denmark, South Africa, Paraguay, Spain, Costa Rica, Turkey, Brazil, Poland, Portugal, USA, South Korea, Cameroon, Ireland, Germany, Argentina, Nigeria, England, Sweden, Mexico, Italy, Croatia, Ecuador, Japan, Belgium, Russia and Tunisia were all better than France.

Cop on mate.

[concanta]

Hear Hear eireboy - totally agree with you

[Duncan Gardner]

Ah, my little cretinous friend's back. I hope you cut and pasted that example of searing wit and didn't have to laboriously type it out again. Stick to colouring in, son

Eirebhoy. France actually managed a point in the World Cup, agin Uruguay. Maybe you dozed off, it was pretty boring. But even apart from that, your example's misplaced. France were inactive through not having to qualify and then rubbish in the finals (though they seem to have recovered). Your poor performances in qualifying were spread over two seasons. No getting away from it, your team's not as good as it was.

Davros. What are you talking about? Are you suggesting that I really think the South are a great side worthy of at least ninth rank in Europe, and am just saying the opposite to wind up some of your fans? If so, don't be silly. As you- and other readers here- know perfectly well, I've always thought the rankings are pretty distorted. Not because NI don't deserve to be in the bottom ten in Europe- we do- but because the standings generally exaggerate countries in North America and Asia at the expense of the other continents.

Sheridan- try to stick to the point rather than showing off how verbose you are. There's nothing 'didactic' about giving up and reverting to witless sarcasm when someone just as well informed disagrees with you

That's a very interesting explanation as to why many of your fans, when all else fails, will resort to "Ah, but we're better than the North'. Sure, the Danish League is better than either in Ireland, but it's not exactly a big source of players for their senior squad. Two players in Portugal, with four caps between them.

[Sheridan]

Sheridan- try to stick to the point rather than showing off how verbose you are.

Bite me.

There's nothing 'didactic' about giving up and reverting to witless sarcasm when someone just as well informed disagrees with you

I wouldn't presume to argue with someone who was as well-informed on a particular subject. I try to help, where I'm needed. Look at the thanks I get!

That's a very interesting explanation as to why many of your fans, when all else fails, will resort to "Ah, but we're better than the North'.

Because they're nationalistic a*sholes and that's the only form of argument they understand. As to why you're trying to pretend that Ireland aren't among the top two or three in the second rank of European nations, I'm at a loss.

Sure, the Danish League is better than either in Ireland, but it's not exactly a big source of players for their senior squad. Two players in Portugal, with four caps between them.

I'm pretty sure every single one of them played senior football in Denmark at one point (Gronkjaer was at Ajax as a teenager, but I think even he played league football in Denmark.) This is the crucial point. Denmark achieved this level of football development from an amateur, standing start in the 60s and 70s.

[1MickCollins]

Ah, my little cretinous friend's back. I hope you cut and pasted that example of searing wit and didn't have to laboriously type it out again. Stick to colouring in, son

Eirebhoy. France actually managed a point in the World Cup, agin Uruguay. Maybe you dozed off, it was pretty boring. But even apart from that, your example's misplaced. France were inactive through not having to qualify and then rubbish in the finals (though they seem to have recovered). Your poor performances in qualifying were spread over two seasons. No getting away from it, your team's not as good as it was.

Davros. What are you talking about? Are you suggesting that I really think the South are a great side worthy of at least ninth rank in Europe, and am just saying the opposite to wind up some of your fans? If so, don't be silly. As you- and other readers here- know perfectly well, I've always thought the rankings are pretty distorted. Not because NI don't deserve to be in the bottom ten in Europe- we do- but because the standings generally exaggerate countries in North America and Asia at the expense of the other continents.

Sheridan- try to stick to the point rather than showing off how verbose you are. There's nothing 'didactic' about giving up and reverting to witless sarcasm when someone just as well informed disagrees with you

That's a very interesting explanation as to why many of your fans, when all else fails, will resort to "Ah, but we're better than the North'. Sure, the Danish League is better than either in Ireland, but it's not exactly a big source of players for their senior squad. Two players in Portugal, with four caps between them.

Duncan you seem to have about 99% of the world's hot air inside you, I'm glad you have found an outlet for it.

The FIFA rankings are a joke, and likewise ranking teams based on group qualification over a season and a half isn't very accurate either. Turkey reached the semi-final of WC2002 along with S.Korea, does that mean that S.Korea are even a top 10 team? A top 20 team?

On any given day any team can beat another, so the longer you measure performance over the more accurate the result. Come back in 2 years time and if we fail to qualify for WC2006 then I will agree with you we are no longer
a top 20 side.

[eirebhoy]

Eirebhoy. France actually managed a point in the World Cup, agin Uruguay. Maybe you dozed off, it was pretty boring. But even apart from that, your example's misplaced. France were inactive through not having to qualify and then rubbish in the finals (though they seem to have recovered). Your poor performances in qualifying were spread over two seasons. No getting away from it, your team's not as good as it was.

Sorry, forgot about that but nearly all of the teams I named still did better than them in the world cup.

I'll give you another example. Are Porto better than Milan, Real Madrid and Arsenal just because they won the CL? Are Greece better than Holland and Spain just because they won their group? Holland came 3rd in their qualifying group for WC2002, does that mean they Slovakia, Scotland, Belarus, Israel, Georgia and Finland would be as good as them?

[Duncan Gardner]

On any given day any team can beat another, so the longer you measure performance over the more accurate the result

No, because you measure results only over a discrete period, not indefinitely. In club/ league football that's over one season, in internationals over a qualifying series across two seasons.

The longer you measure, say, Leeds United's performance over recent years, the more misleading the result. Average last season's points with the previous season, they'd have stayed up; factor in the previous four seasons, qualification for Europe. Two years with eight or ten competitive games is long enough to compare international teams. Go back four, six or eight as you prefer, and you'r talking about largely different squads of players etc.

Eirebhoy. See my previous answer(s). Having seen Spain twice and Greece in this competition, yes the Greeks deserved to win the group and are thus better. The Polish referee in the Greek game was as bent as a nine bob note though...

[Duncan Gardner]

But you've ALREADY come third. That is, er, my evidence that you're not as good as you were.

No offence to Sir Laurie with the Dirty Sanchez tag. Mind you, in the unlikely event we make it to D'land 2006, they'll probably name the road to the new Long Kesh Superstadium after him

Next.

[1MickCollins]

No, because you measure results only over a discrete period, not indefinitely.

8 games Duncan?? 8 games?? Let me count them

2 versus Russia
2 versus Switz
2 versus Albania
2 versus Georgia

You want to decide on the basis of 8 games we are not top 20? Aaah??? Hmn, no that doesn't make sense to me.

When Holland failed to qualify for the WC2002, did they syop being a Top 20 team?

[Duncan Gardner]

Yes.

Next.

[Plastic Paddy]

"There are three kinds of lies; lies, damned lies and statistics" Benjamin Disraeli

Given that you're doing a grand job as the lone Apprentice Boy at this particular Siege of Derry, Duncan, this one could run and run...

PP

[Duncan Gardner]

Alas not PP, I have to sign off today (not so much Euro 2004 as I'm about to become both a student and busier at work).

Next class is in libel btw

Actually I think half of them agree with me but don't want to break ranks...

[Plastic Paddy]

I saw a post of yours the other day about an interview... the best of luck with your studies. Just what the world needs - more lawyers!

PP

[1MickCollins]

Yes.

Next.

Duncan it is hard to believe that you are as big an idiot as you appear, but I guess it is so. You have nothing to offer this board.