QuoteLEDP have said there will never be a bar.Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Well then the club should present a proposal to the LEDP to jointly-fund a bar that could work for both parties.
LEDP have said there will never be a bar.
For what reason?
As far as i know they didn't really give one just said that there will never be one in there.
Presumably somebody asked them why.
They did and i was told the reply was basically there wont be because there wont be they didn't explain why.They have said that drink will be available from trucks that are brought in on match night (it wont). Going by the public meeting they had actually explaining things is not the LEDPs biggest strength. The clubs Official Supporters Club put up a post about the meeting they had with them on facebook but they didn't really say any of the answers they had been given for some reason.
There was some excuse given that the council rates would be really high if a bar and shop were to be in the ground which I find hard to believe.
Well then Lims and their fans need to push them harder on that. If they've not given a reason, that's not acceptable especially as Lims will be paying rent for the use of what they expect to be an attractive stadium and a bar is one way of getting people through the gates. As far as I know, a member's bar wouldn't incur the same rates as a public house.
Dear Bluewhitearmy I don’t understand why you feel you have to personalise all your comments. “All of these people” as you call them are also fans of Limerick Soccer and as such are just as entitled to their opinion as you are to yours. I for one, am a realist and I understand how hard it is to raise a million euro from government in this day and age. I wrote an 1100 word list of valid points which you chose to ignore. The precedent is there for teams to move to bigger grounds for bigger matches Leinster rugby take their bigger matches to the Aviva and they too are licensees of the RDS. Why would anyone want the holding cost of seats that may only be filled once every couple of years at best? Not to talk of what it would do for the atmosphere in the ground. How do you know that the stands won’t cover all the seats? I presume that covered stands are just that. There are uncovered seats on front of the stands in Croke Park too. It is untrue that the club won’t be able to make money on match day. My understanding is that a license allows the club to maximise their revenue generation on the days they occupy the ground, that includes a bar if they wish (such as the Heineken bar at Munster matches) but the license will be the clubs responsibility as will all of the other costs and revenue streams. I am not privy to LEDP’s business plan for the ground but with their pedigree and track record I am sure that they are not completely dependent on Limerick FC for the ground revenues. Also bear in mind that LEDP are a charitable trust company and according to their website they are driven by community, education and business enhancement, they do not have to make money, simply to break even. And now that they have secured money from govt it simply means that they can do what they need to do without massive outlay and therein lies, I imagine, why they are not being extravagant in this phase. I hope this answers your questions of me …now would you reread my first post and address some of the points I made. Bear in mind that we are all on the same side here..only I see, in LEDP, an organisation that have taken on a project that no-one else, Limerick FC included, could or would touch and the way I see it the glass is half full not half empty and I genuinely feel this forum has not been fair to what LEDP have done even if the contributors have acknowledged JP’s role. At this stage I am done with my contributions here I have no wish to prolong an argument that is irrelevant anyway because no matter what you think or say you do not have control of what happens…my advice to you, though I doubt you will either appreciate or take it is to “pee out if the tent rather than peeing into it” and work with the owners rather than sniping at them. PS Charlie Darwin… I actually contacted LEDP and asked them about the bar and they made a very relevant point that if they carried out any commercial activity in the ground themselves that it made them liable for very substantial rates which would add to the holding cost of the ground substantially, they were most accommodating of any question that I asked them
From reading through a lot of the discussion again, it's obvious to me that very few people have actually looked at the plans -- and not just those who are berating some Limerick fans for complaining about them.
Once more, here is the link to the application for planning permission:
http://www.limerickcity.ie/ePlan/Fil...141&LASiteID=0
You can view all the drawings there.
Anyone who has looked at that page over the last week and a half may have noticed that a decision was made on 19 december with 10 conditions. The conditions haven't been published yet, but probably will be in the coming days (or maybe 8 january -- I'm not exactly sure how that part of the process works).
The crux of the issue for fans is that there has been no consultation with them about the development. Fans can give valuable input regarding design elements based on their experiences of football grounds around the league and further afield. Also, among the broad fan base, there is some expertise in engineering, design, agronomy, etc, that may have proven valuable in an open consultation process.
But the consultation process only began after the application for planning permission was submitted.
The level of consultation with the board of the club is not clear. But, apart from the vague letter of support included in the planning application, the club seems to have been very aloof from the whole process.
And the issue of the away section is not merely an issue for away fans. That section of the ground, because it will contain a covered seated area, would be very important if Limerick FC was to hold any friendly matches at the Markets Field.
There is a lot of confusion regarding the development of the ground, with quite a few people I have spoken to about this thinking that the development is based on a variation of one of the sets of previously published plans (those commissioned either by Pat O'Sullivan or by the FAI). As most people who have taken part in the discussion here know, this is not the case!
If -- presuming the 10 conditions being imposed don't drastically alter things -- the current plans are implemented I believe the ability to further enhance the ground in future phases of development will be greatly restricted.
Another issue for the project is the FAI Club Licence process. It's not guaranteed that the Markets Field would be approved for Premier Division football based on the current proposals. While people may point out that United Park is sub-standard, at least Dogheda United are trying to get out of there and into a new ground. Anyway, some facilities at United Park are superior to what is being proposed for the Markets Field. Every other ground in the Premier Division (and many in the First Division) would be substantially better than it.
The issue of Keith Wood as project manager/co-ordinator is not really a big issue. To the best of my knowledge, he holds no formal qualifications in the construction sector. However, if he has a strong team which includes expertise in engineering, design, agronomy, business planning, etc, and his role is merely to bring all this expertise together into a coherent working unit, then depending on the budget available for the project that might be ok.
The reason why some people might be having a go at him is because of a perceived rugby bias in the current design. Because of the extra width required to fit in a full size rugby pitch -- and because the site is not rectangular -- the scope for further development on the Popular Side and the City End is severely restricted.
Fight the good fight!
(Now with my very own account on foot.ie - How cool am I? - 15/02/07)
And you got all this information from the LEDP website and the Limerick Leader?good man yourself. Happy new year to you and all at the LEDP.
Am I missing something here?
Somebody gives MF to LEDP for FREE so they can redevelop the ground as a HOME for Limerick FC as well as other organisations using the ground also.
LEDP also given e1.1m by Government to develop MF.
LEDP submit plans for a ground which would have one of the SMALLEST capacities in the LOI andNo bar.
Limerick FC would have use of the ground for ONLY 20 days a year.
Limerick FC will have to pay rent for basic facilities with little way of making money besides match tickets.
If Limerick FC have a big game ie Fai Cup Semifinal, big league game or Friendly the game would have to be moved to another ground IF OTHER GROUND IS AVAILABLE..
The new facilities would be fine for LEDP but would do nothing to attract new Fans For Limerick FC.
So we should all be grateful to LEDP for letting us rent a ground they got for free and got e1.1m towards the Development.
Also to Llimerickmurf1 I'd love to know who at LEDP answered all you questions because any questions I asked I never got a proper answer just the same 'the funding is not there' line. Also LMURF1 I said it was a waste giving the ground to LEDP, not because of what you think (the fans would be redeveloping the MF??) I was suggesting LFC could have developed MF. Also I just agree with ONE point you make about the majority of limerick people being supportive of the development of MF, why wouldn't they, until the see this so called stadium in the flesh then thy will think WTF!!! When will this place be finished.
nobody really knows what is happening at the minute with the markets field so dont panic and be at each others throats.who cares about a bloody bar,i have a drink but you dont need alcohol to enjoy a football match.i dont think pat o sullivan and co would be that naive to lead the club into something dodgey,they have done great stuff so far.positive thoughts for 2014 lads.all we need now is a few more players.a lot of the so called soccer fans around only support english teams and wont give the irish league a chance,so no matter what they wont come and support any team.
Planning permission has been granted, although the 10 conditions haven't been made public yet (they will probably be published in the coming days). And now that the LEDP have confirmed they have secured the necessary funding, presumably they will be proceeding with the development as planned.
Revenue from a bar would alleviate some of the dependency on money from Pat O'Sullivan's businesses and life savings.
Having a bar or function room would allow the club to do other things, e.g. post-match meals for teams, host VIP guests, sponsors, etc, hold social events in the off season and other non-match events.
If Limerick FC or the Official Supporters' Club is prevented from establishing a private members' club with a bar and function room at the ground, then I think they will have to seek out some other location to do so. Bruff is obviously not a realistic option for this.
This is about helping the club become more sustainable into the future.
The club has been remarkably quiet on the issue. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the statement on the club website seems very nuanced in its message! (There's no date on that statement, and I can't remember when it was posted.)
Sorry for picking on your post, delboyderis, but your points were more concise than some of the other ramblings (although, admittedly, I can ramble on myself at times!).
Fight the good fight!
(Now with my very own account on foot.ie - How cool am I? - 15/02/07)
That statement came out on the 13th of December.
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
Rem back to the pos presentation in thomond of his stadium plan. The cost of phase one for 3500 seats was 1.6 million. With the ledp 400k and 1.1 which has suddenly become available from a government quango it means 1.5 million for a 3000 capacity.....could they have not stuck to his plan
At the end of the day lads beggars cant's be choosers and beggars is exactly what we are. It takes serious money to lay a playing surface and get the MF capable of catering for Premier division football even at the admittedly small scale developments proposed. People need to get real and accept that a ground with a 3k capacity is plenty big enough for Limerick FC. In an ideal world a bar would be a good money making project but how feasible would it be lads? What would the turnover be. how profitable would it be etc...All the naysayers on here are great to spout on about the LEDP charging Limerick FC rent on the MF. Realistically how can the LEDP look for anything other that a token gesture. Do ye think JP and the LEDP got in to this to make money out the money spinning franchise that is Limerick senior soccer??? Ye are all great to shoot people down for not agreeing with yer negativity towards the MF but none of ye has offered even one ALTERNATIVE to the MF move?????
So, we pay a sizable rent to Thomond Park, but the LEDP will be happy for a "token gesture"? Come on man, that is complete fantasy.
3K is more than big enough, unless its a big game, when its back to Thomond, which we'll pay handsomely for.
I'm fully confident a bar would be profitable. We'll never know under these plans of course. It's such a basic idea, but the LEDP isn't interested.
But, we're going completely in circles here. We keep telling you we just want these basic additions to the plans to improve the standing of the club and you keep going "but what are the alternatives, what are the alternatives, what are the alternatives?". The alternative is that the thing is done correctly now. That is the alternative. I think you're fishing for one of us to say we should stay in Jackman or something, but you know what? Replace the Jackman hills with some terraces, and it isn't that far off what the MF is going to be. Limerick fans didn't want that.
And if the LEDP is treating us like beggars, maybe its because of the attitude of people like you, who are content to act as such. The Market's Field can be improved, to the benefit of both the club and the LEDP, without a gigantic amount of extra investment. Acting otherwise is paving the way for a future weakening of Limerick FC.
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
Well, I never expected those plans to come to exact fruition, just a bit over-ambitious in my opinion.
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
I only noticed this post now. Rds, aviva, leinster, croke park.great try against england in fairness
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks