Referendum Vote

**eoinh** · 15/06/2004, 5:34 PM

Originally Posted by Condex

(laughably nonsensical) Very good, your not comparing like with like,
I sure your new home will be your castle, but its natural for people to be territorial unless you live in a commune which few people do.

Are you advocating an open-door policy because if you are take a look at London, this is a city where peoples sense of community and identity lies with there country of origin rather than the host country, this causes resentment in the host population. Some of these people do not want to integrate but instead want to live separate lives in their own communities.

Is this the kind of mutli-cultural society you want for Ireland, because once
this policy is set in train there is no way in the future to ask anyone to leave

Trevor Phillips of the CRE(Commission for Racial Equality) is telling us that
multiculturalism is a discredited idea, and that integration is the way forard.

Condex Ireland is a country that has had many nationalities come to settle here. This pure blood irishness is simply bull. Theres simply no such thing.

We are made up of mesolithic, neolithic, viking, norman, english, scottish, celtic, hugenot etc bloodlines.

We are so well integrated that no one can tell who their ancestors were!
Why should it be so different in the past. Is ivania Bacik Irish? Yes!

**Condex** · 15/06/2004, 6:00 PM

Originally Posted by eoinh

The amount of immigrants Ireland gets is Tiny. Indians are free to travel (india is a democracy) if they want to. the reason you see hardly any indians living in ireland is simply because the vast majority DONT want to live here.

I've spent seven weeks travelling in India and have worked for three years with a lot of Indians, so I know a little bit about the place.

The majority of Indians cannot afford to travel anywhere it may be a democracy but a very unfair society eg caste system

You should take a look at the matrimonial section of newspapers there a
partner is chooses depending on colour, caste and money (the whiter the better)

And as for integating in the UK they usually live in mainly Indian areas and marry partners arranged for them by their parents and ralatives.

**patsh** · 15/06/2004, 7:54 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

Quote:
Originally Posted by patsh
Opinion: John Waters

That's as far as I got.

Nothing surprising in an FFer refusing to listen to a different point of view.

Btw, how does it feel to be a member of the group that will soon be the biggest left-wing party in the state?..

**Condex** · 15/06/2004, 9:13 PM

Originally Posted by eoinh

Condex Ireland is a country that has had many nationalities come to settle here. This pure blood irishness is simply bull. Theres simply no such thing.

We are made up of mesolithic, neolithic, viking, norman, english, scottish, celtic, hugenot etc bloodlines.

We are so well integrated that no one can tell who their ancestors were!
Why should it be so different in the past. Is ivania Bacik Irish? Yes!

That was then this is now, we live in an age where communications, ease of travel and government policies mean that you won't don't have to integrate.

As I've said before you just have to look at cities in the UK to see this happening.

**eoinh** · 15/06/2004, 9:24 PM

Originally Posted by Condex

The majority of Indians cannot afford to travel anywhere it may be a democracy but a very unfair society eg caste system

Neither can most people from most asian and african countries. thats the point i was making there are very few immigrants in this countries. How many people from Malawi live in ireland?

**Condex** · 15/06/2004, 9:29 PM

Originally Posted by eoinh

Neither can most people from most asian and african countries. thats the point i was making there are very few immigrants in this countries. How many people from Malawi live in ireland?

And my point is lets keep it like that.

**eoinh** · 15/06/2004, 9:34 PM

Originally Posted by Condex

That was then this is now, we live in an age where communications, ease of travel and government policies mean that you won't don't have to integrate.

As I've said before you just have to look at cities in the UK to see this happening.

England was a huge imperial power. Something its not now. Huge numbers of people moved there - something thats not happened or is going to happen in Ireland. They often saw england as a mother country.

If there are say 1000 estonians in ireland at present, in 40 years time you wont have a distinctive estonian community. there simply arent going to be enough of them. these people coming to ireland are coming from different countries not as in england where a large number came from a small number of countries. Thats the crucial difference. a friend of mine had polish parents yet he was as irish as could be! The reason: there arent many poles in ireland.

**eoinh** · 15/06/2004, 9:36 PM

Originally Posted by Condex

And my point is lets keep it like that.

so we send all our fillipino nurses home?

**Condex** · 16/06/2004, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by eoinh

England was a huge imperial power. Something its not now. Huge numbers of people moved there - something thats not happened or is going to happen in Ireland. They often saw england as a mother country.

If there are say 1000 estonians in ireland at present, in 40 years time you wont have a distinctive estonian community. there simply arent going to be enough of them. these people coming to ireland are coming from different countries not as in england where a large number came from a small number of countries. Thats the crucial difference. a friend of mine had polish parents yet he was as irish as could be! The reason: there arent many poles in ireland.

I have no doubt that people who want to integrate will, must also point out that most of the people who do are from Christian countries. this is because there is not a huge difference in culture.

**patsh** · 16/06/2004, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Conor74

John Waters doesn't have a different point of view. He justs has the same oblique way of looking at things, it's just the subject that changes every now and again.

As for the left wing, don't say myself and S�C didn't tell you. We ARE centre left, we ARE...

"I won't listen to a different point of view, because I say its not a different point of view"
Well thats certainly a new angle Conor....

And to think that I've been listening to FFers bleating for the last few days that they "don't listen " enough.......

**eoinh** · 16/06/2004, 5:39 PM

Originally Posted by Condex

I have no doubt that people who want to integrate will, must also point out that most of the people who do are from Christian countries. this is because there is not a huge difference in culture.

The vast majority of people here from Nigeria are christian. malawi is in the main christain.

**Condex** · 16/06/2004, 7:56 PM

Originally Posted by eoinh

The vast majority of people here from Nigeria are christian. malawi is in the main christain.

Wrong again,
http://www.islamicpopulation.com/nigeria_muslim.html

**eoinh** · 16/06/2004, 8:06 PM

Read what im saying - i said "The vast majority of people here from Nigeria are christian" not that the majority of nigerians are christians.

Many of those who leave are asylum seekers because of their christain religion. So no, im not wrong.

For the record - 75% of malawis people are christian but it doesnt matter as there are very few people from Malawi here which is my point!!

**Condex** · 16/06/2004, 8:27 PM

Originally Posted by eoinh

Read what im saying - i said "The vast majority of people here from Nigeria are christian" not that the majority of nigerians are christians.

Many of those who leave are asylum seekers because of their christain religion. So no, im not wrong.

For the record - 75% of malawis people are christian but it doesnt matter as there are very few people from Malawi here which is my point!!

How do you know they are Christian, did they tell you or all they have to do to claim asylum is say is that they are being persecuted. Even if they were/are there culture is vastly different to ours.

Asylum seekers would see Ireland as a stepping stone into the EU as it seemed to be dishing out passports to all and sundry. Also are you aware that Nigeria is one of the most corrupt countries in the world where countless scams orginate.

**pete** · 17/06/2004, 9:01 AM

I see figures saying 1500 Nigerian/Irish births in dublin hospitals last year. Can add same again i suppuse for rest of country. So 3000 by say 5 people per family (cos once 1 irish child in the family all the rest get to stay) so up to 15000 people allowed stay in Ireland thru previous citizen situation.

I'm not saying if good or bad but thems the numbers...

**pete** · 17/06/2004, 9:20 AM

Originally Posted by Conor74

Where did you get that?

I thought the law was as set down by the Supreme Court, ie. that deportation of family members is permitted notwithstanding an Irish birth. I wish it were as you say, but I didn't think so...

Didn't pay much attention to that but how practical is that really? Has this been used yet...?

btw i've no problem with people coming & working here, getting irish citizenship 'n everything. I'd just prefer we have a managed emigration policy although obviously still committed to accepting political refugees.

**Dodge** · 17/06/2004, 9:25 AM

Originally Posted by pete

I see figures saying 1500 Nigerian/Irish births in dublin hospitals last year. Can add same again i suppuse for rest of country. So 3000 by say 5 people per family (cos once 1 irish child in the family all the rest get to stay) so up to 15000 people allowed stay in Ireland thru previous citizen situation.

I'm not saying if good or bad but thems the numbers...

The rest of the family Don't get to stay though Pete... They used to but that was stopped about 2 years ago... (plus well dodgy guessing at 5 in the family, more likely to be one/two)

And the numbers coming in legally/illegally are very small.

**Dodge** · 17/06/2004, 9:42 AM

There was no Irish Born Child section of D/Justice 18 months ago. It was only set up about then. Previously, people applied to D/Justice for permission to remain on the basis of their IBC but the application was dealt with by the general Immigration and citizenship division in D/Justice. Because of this, a backlog developed and they set a section up, however until the SC decision (and all possible legal challenges) was definitive and final, no legislation was possible.

Immediately after the decision (July 2003), they released this note but the expected legislation forthcoming should quicken things up

**Dodge** · 17/06/2004, 1:21 PM

No worries. They redesigned their site recently and most things are easier to find now.

**lopez** · 17/06/2004, 5:55 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

Before the SC decision, on the birth of a child to non-nationals here the parents would simply send of a birth cert and a few other forms and get an Irish passport...

I take it it was the child that got the passport which entitled the parents to stay (article whatever of the Irish constitution claiming the integrity of the family etc.) rather than an Irish born child entitling the parents to get automatic citizenship.