The nuclear option

[punkrocket]

Tides will never be a major part of the energy mix in Ireland, because we simply don't have the tidal range

I wouldn't agree entirely there, maybe for a tidal barrage but for a system like is employed at strangford range isn't really as important, volume of water is more important to move the turbines blades, which are really underwater versions of wind turbines. so there would be plenty of suitable places such as Lough Foyle, Larne Lough, Gweebarra Bay even the mouth of the Shannon. but that is really only applicable to big projects, there are also plenty of sites which would be suitable for the a smaller Oscillating water column like Queen's Uni developed on Islay and which would help to decentralise production and intermittancy problems. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1032148.stm
We really need a whole pile of small and diverse projects chipping into the mix. I remember hearing of a project in a South african township where the kids roundabout was rigged up to generate electricity - very simple technology, fuelled by kids playing. We could do the same here, think of all all the megawatts you'd get if we put mini turbines of all LOI turnstiles.
Of course we need bigger projects as well such as offshore windfarms where the wind blows more frequently than it does onshore but lots of small projects add up and can help create a sense of community. Solar/wind/tidal/wave/geo and all the rest should be in the mix, peak oil is not so far away and that's when the will really hit the turbine. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ak-oil-warning

Oh and Fukushima doesn't seem like being sorted any time soon.

[peadar1987]

I wouldn't agree entirely there, maybe for a tidal barrage but for a system like is employed at strangford range isn't really as important, volume of water is more important to move the turbines blades, which are really underwater versions of wind turbines. so there would be plenty of suitable places such as Lough Foyle, Larne Lough, Gweebarra Bay even the mouth of the Shannon. but that is really only applicable to big projects, there are also plenty of sites which would be suitable for the a smaller Oscillating water column like Queen's Uni developed on Islay and which would help to decentralise production and intermittancy problems. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1032148.stm
We really need a whole pile of small and diverse projects chipping into the mix. I remember hearing of a project in a South african township where the kids roundabout was rigged up to generate electricity - very simple technology, fuelled by kids playing. We could do the same here, think of all all the megawatts you'd get if we put mini turbines of all LOI turnstiles.
Of course we need bigger projects as well such as offshore windfarms where the wind blows more frequently than it does onshore but lots of small projects add up and can help create a sense of community. Solar/wind/tidal/wave/geo and all the rest should be in the mix, peak oil is not so far away and that's when the will really hit the turbine. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...ak-oil-warning

Oh and Fukushima doesn't seem like being sorted any time soon.

Islay is actually a wave energy converter, not a tidal plant, and it'll probably be a good few years before wave energy is able to produce electricity at a competitive price. I don't think "people power" things like the roundabout you mentioned are ever going to be more than a nice idea though. Your average person is going to produce far less than 1hp, maybe around 100 watts, if they're working steadily. It'd take everyone in Ireland pedalling a bike attached to a generator for over six hours a day to produce as much power as Ardnacrusha.

Perhaps the biggest thing is energy efficiency though. Insulate houses properly, turn off the lights, throw on an extra jumper instead of turning up the heating, use ground source heat pumps and combined heat and power in all new office buildings and housing developments, we're probably using twice the energy we actually strictly need to be using, so cutting down on the excess is a cheap and effective way of increasing the proportion of "home grown" energy sources, without shelling out for a few thousand new wind turbines.

[Red Star]

Green energy is too expensive to run and in truth it isn't very green either. If you get solar panels in your house it will never pay for it's self. Most panels only last 10 years before they need a up grade and aren't much good in Ireland for 6months of the years. Geo termail is a complete con in this country they pump will cost more to run then what you will save. Heat pumps can be ok but again for it to work proper you need to fit a very expensive system which will never pay for it's self and you would need a three phase supply. Wind only works on a very large scale putting up a terbine at the back of your house again will never pay for it's self and will need to be maintained and most likely to be replaced in 10 years. Woodchip boilers don't give off great heat no matter what the sales people say stay away from them. If you want to save energy switch off your switches

[dahamsta]

Do you have any evidence to back any of those statements up?

My current house came with tube collectors inline with wood pellets and although I haven't run any calculations yet, I know for a fact that it's costing well less than the gas in my last house. I've also researched geothermal and although it can be argued that vertical is too expensive, horizontal is cheaper to implement. And finally, although the payback on a standalone wind turbine doesn't kick in for 10 years, lifespan is 12, giving 2 years free energy.

So again, have you any evidence to back up your assertions, or are you just off on a rant because you got shafted by someone?

[Eminence Grise]

Michael Viney in today's Irish Times on wind power and county development plans.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...299677588.html

[Macy]

Geothermal Heat Pumps were the in thing when we were building, but I have to say I was never convinced. Partly because it relies on electricity too much, but partly because of the changeable climate in Ireland. Winter temperatures can change too quickly here, and the heat pumps take too long to adjust, was my judgement.
I find it hard to believe there isn't the pay back on a solar hot water system, if you have the right roof alignment. Think of the gain in a cold water tank within the roof on sunny days. That was very new technology when we built, but it's the one I regret not fitting. Especially since we've had the children and need hot water for baths during the summer as well.
Wind turbines - pay back much less if you can sell back to the grid, it's the batteries that extend the pay back time. Major fail of the Green's in Government that they never moved on the microgeneration and selling back to the grid.
Woodchip or Woodpellets? I haven't heard complaints on the heat output. The only issue is the prices of pellets moving with oil, which is rip off Ireland at work rather than a problem with the technology.

I'd like to see the figures as well. But I would still question, on the general house heating at least, if you were doing a new build whether you'd be better putting the extra spend on increasing the insulation?

[Red Star]

I fit all those kind of things for a living so I'm the one doing the shafting. I guess I don't have evidence per say just my experience of 15 years in this line of work. With wood chip you will find if you want the same output as a oil or gas burner you will have to buy better quality pellets which will end up costing as much. What type of wood chip burner do you have?

[dahamsta]

There's nothing like getting something for nothing, I relish my free showers.

I didn't build this house but I plan to build my next one in 10 or 15 years. It'll definitely have tube collectors anyway, that's a given. I have a favoured site that likely wouldn't support horizontal geothermal, but if I end up with one that does, I'll install the guts of it myself. Since it's likely that we'll have - finally - sorted grid return prices by then, it's likely I'd install a turbine too, if I can afford it of course.

Wood pellets is trickier, because they're still so expensive. Our house came with a high-end Wodke, which are ridiculous money, but I wouldn't be installing a ridiculous money boiler. That said, I'd be spending more on my setup at the outset, because my install doesn't have a screw or store, so it can be a pain in the hole in the depths of winter. Wood pellet prices are still exactly the same as they were when I moved in though, and it's way, way cheaper to run than any other method I've used previously.

[peadar1987]

I'm just after remembering this thread having sold my soul to the devil and worked three months now in the nuclear industry.

I'm still not 100% convinced by it, especially on the cost front (the UK's Advanced Gas Cooled reactors are an absolute disaster area reliability- and cost-wise, Dungeness B has been generating power for about 4 days in total since I joined the sector). I have become more comfortable with the idea of waste though. Yes, it's nasty stuff, but deep geological sequestering of high-level waste is going to have far fewer effects on the world than pumping millions of tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere.

Perhaps it's because of nuclear weapons, or the fact that radiation is mysterious (and therefore frightening), or even just that death from radiation is an absolutely horrible way to go, but people seem to overestimate the risks and hazards of nuclear power far more than they would for other, less emotive, things.