New England Football Shirt.

[lopez]

Believe me, I've little time for England fans - most of them are c0ckney w@nkers for starters...

...but to tar them all with the same brush is just another form of the "all paddies are thick drunkards" mentality.

or that most tans are 'c0ckney w@nkers for starters.'

If some of you hate the "tans" so much, why stay there considering you're all so bitter? It's alright to live, work, socialise etc with those you seem to detest so much. Not like there's been a shortage of opportunities the last 10 years or so to return home, it's your choice to remain in the (three) lions den.

Ahh, the old 'why don't you f*ck off home' line. If I'm right in thinking you once lived in Britain? Well I don't know what your reasons for leaving, but take away the arrogant minority (here comes the key difference) from the population as a whole - those who follow Eng-er-land passionately and either take part in or are apologists for their behaviour in football matches in Europe over the last 27 years, vote BNP, UKIP or that latest cabal to extol the greatness of this so-called 'country' - the country is not a bad place to live.

There are also two things to remember: 1. The country I live in is Britain, Great Britain, UK, not this fake pie-in-the-sky country called En-ger-land. 2. I pay my taxes: I can live wherever the f*ck and support whoever the f*ck I like.

I was in Amsterdam during Euro 2000 and when the Dutch were knocked they spilled out of the pubs and caused a riot. They trashed the place. How many of you saw that on TV? I saw it with my own eyes and I'll tell you, they went mental. The cops didn't know what to do.

Wowwww! One riot in 27 years since Luxembourg was trashed in 1977. That is some list. I'd like to make a list of riots our wonderful friends from tanland have started since 1977 but I haven't got the time.

How many times have we played Holland in that time? 13 times. I've been to eleven of those games and the only trouble I saw were at the two away games in 1981 and 1982: The first game I saw two Irish punks with tricolour mohicans abuse a black man in the street near Rotterdam Station which ended in a white neighbour helping the black man lay into them and getting all of them arrested. Shortly later a London-Irish fan (or as Macy would put it, a c0ckney w@nker) set fire to a Dutch flag - 'cos of the colours' - outside the Double Diamond pub nearby. The second game's 'action' consisted of both sides shouting abuse at each other after the Irish had a few beers thrown at them from above.

Hardly compares with the Lansdowne Road riot, the attack on a sparsely populated pub in Kilburn in which I was in before the 1991 match and received a gash from a glass thrown ito the pub, and the trouble at every Irish game since 1980, not to mention every other England match where there's been trouble (Despite the rise of hooliganism in 1977 at England games the tans were absent from Dublin in 1978 - like Scotland games until the mid eighties - for fear of getting a bit of their own medicine which I believe befell Newcastle supporters a couple of years earlier on a visit to Bohs.)

[Macy]

Lopez, I said most of them were C0ckney W@nkers, didn't say most of them were C0ckney Hooligan W@nkers. They're mainly w@nkers because they do things like drink out of caps instead of cups...

Just because that's the only report you've ever seen on the German or Dutch hooligans, doesn't mean it was the only incident. Obviously every incident involving England will be on the tele here and in the UK - they're not going to report on other countries. The German and Dutch fans may not be as notorious as the England fans, but they certainly aren't that far behind in terms of causing trouble.

[lopez]

Just because that's the only report you've ever seen on the German or Dutch hooligans, doesn't mean it was the only incident. Obviously every incident involving England will be on the tele here and in the UK - they're not going to report on other countries. The German and Dutch fans may not be as notorious as the England fans, but they certainly aren't that far behind in terms of causing trouble.

Another myth is the old media-are-out-to-get-us old line. During the game with Germany in 2001 the tabloids were all set to run stories of hooliganism in Munich. Because the tans won by such a significant number of goals and there was a national outpouring of euphoria the news was ditched. Of course you wouldn't have heard about that because the Irish newspaper media is dominated by British titles - and we should define ourselves as something other than with the British? - or titles that get their news syndicated from the British press. Another airbrushing of history, although on a smaller scale, was the Scum (the newspaper) failing to print any photos of hooligans with their stupid hats during France 98.

As for reporting other countries, YES, every action by Turkish fans is currently reported in Britain in an effort to deflect attention from the scum (in the past the same was with the Dutch but their hooliganism has been controlled).

The German and Dutch fans may not be as notorious as the England fans, but they certainly aren't that far behind in terms of causing trouble.

This sounds like it's coming from someone who hasn't had much dealings with German or Dutch fans. Viz a viz the Irish, where is the evidence? While there are hooligans everywhere they are not as omnipresent as with the tans, not even at English club level. Last weekend, myself, Sylvo and his better half stopped at a pub packed full of orange shirts on the way to the ArenA. We had a great time. Imagine that scenario with the tans? Well you might, but having been there I know that a similar entrance into The Globe in Baker Street on matchday by visiting fans would be far less welcoming. And you call the difference here between the Germans/Dutch and the scum as not 'that far behind in terms of causing trouble.' I'd call it having a lot more time for tan hooligans than you're willing to admit.

The irony is Senor,you seem to be better informed than most of the naive populace who post on here & think that the large solar entity shine out of their 'benevolent'neighbours' anal orifices...............

Obviously none of these apologists were the ones who found themselves in amongst the tans in 95, and subsequently took the FAI to court. One bloke summed it up at the case by saying he was abused, both verbally and physically, so much that he had to run out of the section. His trauma included a subsequent lack of self-worth because of the guilt at his inability to combat - being far outnumbered - any of the c*nts on equal terms. Says a lot about the brave and honourable hooligan portrayed in sh*te like The Football Factory.

[Macy]

I'd call it having a lot more time for tan hooligans than you're willing to admit.

I have no time for the England Hooligans, particularly given their C18/BNP Links. However, I don't believe that all England fans are hoolies/C18/BNP, or that they're the only fans in Europe that cause trouble. Both are patently untrue, and no matter how many incidents you quote isn't going to tar every single england fan as a hoolie as far as any reasonable person is concerned.

[lopez]

I have no time for the England Hooligans, particularly given their C18/BNP Links. However, I don't believe that all England fans are hoolies/C18/BNP, or that they're the only fans in Europe that cause trouble. Both are patently untrue, and no matter how many incidents you quote isn't going to tar every single england fan as a hoolie as far as any reasonable person is concerned.

What is patently untrue is that the gap between the tans and Germany and Holland is miniscule. You're right about EVERY England fan - one I know gave up going to England games in the eighties because of the hassle which was caused NOT by foreign police or fans but by his fellow countrymen - but frankly I've come across so many w*nkers amongst them I couldn't be ar*ed to ask whether they are a hooligan or they aren't. And if they are apologists for English hoolganism they are the same as the real thing to me.

[sylvo]

Never seen the Germans or Dutch having riots at international tournaments? Believe me, I've little time for England fans - most of them are c0ckney w@nkers for starters, but to tar them all with the same brush is just another form of the "all paddies are thick drunkards" mentality.

If some of you hate the "tans" so much, why stay there considering you're all so bitter? It's alright to live, work, socialise etc with those you seem to detest so much. Not like there's been a shortage of opportunities the last 10 years or so to return home, it's your choice to remain in the (three) lions den.

Thank's for the Cead mile failte to come home, i've got a house in Ireland which i'm slowing doing up in ready for my homecoming, but as Lopez said i also pay my tax'es and national insurance and after all our community built this country, and seeing that all that cockney's and northerner's rivlary mean's f**k all to me i also include our fellow Irish community in Manchester who also helped in building the place, so i'll come home when i click my finger's not when anyone else does.
Yea i know the tan's are'nt the only country to have a problem, i've meet a good few of the local yob's on my travel's, and they've all f**cked off when we've said not interested to their offer of a ruck i have to say, unlike our misunderstood buddy's who don't ask for an invite.
On Saturday my freind, while meself and my collen were having a romantic stroll taking in a fantastic day, result and the craic we'd just had with every Dutch fan we met, my collen was pushed over and had all the Holland football team stuff which had been kindly handed to her by some of the cracking Dutch fan's we'd been drinking with taken from her by some W**ker backed up by anything up to 15 of his mate's all in their tan shirt's, (which Amsterdam was full of last weekend), all doing their bit to stop me from chashing after the w**nker, looking back i'm glad she told me to leave it, soooo i'm soooo soooo sorry if any thing to do with the 3 puddy caaat's meet's with a negative responce from me but having to take my collen back to our hotel in a shocked and upset state thank's to them still p**ses my off.
As for all this not tarring them all the same brush, my father was'nt chilling out in London in the the 70's with an active service unit but it did'nt stop him from getting roughed up a few time's by PC Plod, on one occasion when asked why he was getting hassell he was told a line that i used on an tan fan who was giving out about the treatment they got at the hand's of the Belgian fuzz to me, ''YOU REEP WHAT YOU F**KING SOW MATE''

[Pat O' Banton]

Silvo how ya doing?!?

While it has been said that the Dutch fans rioted post Italy game in the 2000 tourny, the idea of thousands of Orange clad blokes in stupid hats spreading fear across Europe in the same way that the Ralf Lauren brigade has is purely laughable.
If anyone is in any doubt about the way that English fans view violence, next time you are in England walk into any large bookshop, go to the sports section and see how many hooligan books are there, even better open them and have a look through the pics and in you will find that many will have at least one lad giving a right hand salute. It is purely violence as glamour and the fact that since 1990 there has been a publishing upsurge in this shows that it sells.
Of course the majority of fans are not violent but the percentage of these that subscribe to the theory to the foreigners are there to be abused is not pleasent.

Do have sympathy with PP's statement (post 31) as Mrs O' Banton supports England and have certainly mellowed in relation to my attitude towards England but both she and I know that while I won't openly be cheering France on Sunday I will not be upset when they eventually go out.

[lopez]

You've hit the nail on the head here. Two things I read today.

1. A report in the Scum (so don't take it at face value - BTW, I found it on a train...seriously... ) claims that tans will be allowed to break the law and smoke the moroccan old holborn as this makes them non-violent. Why stop there? Let them take heroin!

2. And this is more serious, the Scum FA have got lawyers lined up to fight any eviction of the Scum from the tournament. Once again, ducking their responsibilities and being apologists for hooliganism.

People say a fashion lasts upto thirty years. Making following the scum unappealing to the burberry brigade is the only solution. It certainly occurs with the England rugby team who have little history of trouble despite drawing many fans (especially in the west country) from the same lower middle/working class backgrounds that the scum come from. However the fashion of contempt for foreigners in Britain and what I would term the 'cult of war, is as high as ever across much of English society and this is a crucial difference between Britain and France, Germany, Holland etc.

[sylvo]

I shall be in Lisbon on Sunday, at the match, with several English mates and having a few beers, all so far far removed from some of the hysterical - but predictable - stereotypical comments on here.

Thumbs up to Peader and Max (although your ****ing in the wind with the jaundiced likes of Che and Dev here, lads).

Think I'll wear my Glens shirt next time Im down Dublin just to see if it really is the 'Land of a 1000 Welcomes'.

AAHHH I do hope snow white and the seven dwarf's had a nice time last night.