Republic of Ireland V Uruguay - Tuesday, 29th March 2011 - Friendly

[paul_oshea]

gk
RB CB CB LB

McCarthy Fahey
AmcG

long Duff
Doyle

We would get destroyed defensively, though against a team like macedonia where conceding would be ok as we could easily score enough to outnumber (outscore) them.

Begs the question do you think Trap should change the system/players based on the opposition? I know consistency etc etc, but our football would improve and it would make me a hell of a lot less nervous watching us playing the lower middle ranked team such as Macedonia.

[Noelys Guitar]

I just can't see Trap changing systems from 4-4-2. Not with Doyle, Long, Keane, Best and Walters pushing for places. Which means we need McCarthy or Mayler or a.n.other to step up. Former still injured McCarthy probably not quite ready yet. Fahey very similar style to Mark Kinsella. Would have dovetailed perfectly with Roy Keane. Whelan is not improving (seems to be getting slower and slower). Gibson is vying with Fahey. Green played OK on Tuesday but not the answer either. Realistically I can't see Steven Reid coming back (which is a real pity). I have a feeling O'Hara will be in the next squad. Probably slightly better player than what we currently have in CM. Constantly looks/shouts for the ball and has an arrogance about him. Trap will like that. An inferior Andy Townsend but maybe the player who could slot in beside Fahey or Gibson short-term.

[ifk101]

I just can't see Trap changing systems from 4-4-2. Not with Doyle, Long, Keane, Best and Walters pushing for places. Which means we need McCarthy or Mayler or a.n.other to step up. Former still injured McCarthy probably not quite ready yet. Fahey very similar style to Mark Kinsella. Would have dovetailed perfectly with Roy Keane. Whelan is not improving (seems to be getting slower and slower). Gibson is vying with Fahey. Green played OK on Tuesday but not the answer either. Realistically I can't see Steven Reid coming back (which is a real pity). I have a feeling O'Hara will be in the next squad. Probably slightly better player than what we currently have in CM. Constantly looks/shouts for the ball and has an arrogance about him. Trap will like that. An inferior Andy Townsend but maybe the player who could slot in beside Fahey or Gibson short-term.

Fahey very similar style to Mark Kinsella???

O'Hara will not be in the next squad. Or any future squad under Trapattoni for that matter.

[Noelys Guitar]

Fahey very similar style to Mark Kinsella???

O'Hara will not be in the next squad. Or any future squad under Trapattoni for that matter.

Well argued. You make some good points.

[ifk101]

Well argued. You make some good points.

I don't see a similar between Fahey and Kinsella in terms of playing style hence question marks if you wished to elaborate on that point. Evidently not.

O'Hara has made it clear he doesn't want to play for us. Trapattoni has mentioned the importance of commitment. Put 2 and 2 together .....

[Noelys Guitar]

I don't see a similar between Fahey and Kinsella in terms of playing style hence question marks if you wished to elaborate on that point. Evidently not.

O'Hara has made it clear he doesn't want to play for us. Trapattoni has mentioned the importance of commitment. Put 2 and 2 together .....

Sunday Indo march 20th
As importantly, there is openness in their communication with Trapattoni. He has a good relationship with John Delaney and the FAI believe he is the most straightforward manager they have worked with since Jack Charlton.

Trapattoni was happy to take suggestions and the process was put in place for a meeting which, despite the ongoing comments of Martinez, should ensure that nobody is left questioning McCarthy's commitment to Ireland.

Trapattoni may now meet other players who he has been repeatedly questioned about. FAI sources suggested last week that he would soon try and sit down with Jamie O'Hara, the Wolves midfielder.

[SwanVsDalton]

We would get destroyed defensively, though against a team like macedonia where conceding would be ok as we could easily score enough to outnumber (outscore) them.

Mostly agree with this.

Begs the question do you think Trap should change the system/players based on the opposition? I know consistency etc etc, but our football would improve and it would make me a hell of a lot less nervous watching us playing the lower middle ranked team such as Macedonia.

I know what you mean, but there's no guarantee a change of system will make us any more at ease. In fact, I think that comes from the idea that we should steamroller the likes of Macedonia - and I don't necessarily see why we should be.

Sure, if everything clicked on the night - we got the right goals at the right times, took our chances - we could win these games comfortably. But take a look at Macedonia's results over the past five years in any game (including friendlies). From Soccerbase, I gathered they've only lost three times by more than a single goal - Scotland away in 2009 (2-0); Holland away, 09 (4-0); Russia away, 07 (3-0). In that time the likes of Spain and England couldn't spank them.

Again I'm not saying we couldn't put up a good score against these guys, but it would be the exception not the rule. In general, no one has an easy time against Macedonia (and I believe it's probably the same for other awkward sides). And the system wouldn't necessarily change that. I believe nervy times is just the nature of European Qualifying football when you're a just above average team like ourselves.

Also - while a change of system/personnel/tactics might make us control the ball a bit better, and so make us less nervous, I still don't think it's automatically that simple against teams like Macedonia. It was only a couple of years, as Euro Champs, that Spain beat them 3-2 after coming from two behind.

[ifk101]

Sunday Indo march 20th
As importantly, there is openness in their communication with Trapattoni. He has a good relationship with John Delaney and the FAI believe he is the most straightforward manager they have worked with since Jack Charlton.

Trapattoni was happy to take suggestions and the process was put in place for a meeting which, despite the ongoing comments of Martinez, should ensure that nobody is left questioning McCarthy's commitment to Ireland.

Trapattoni may now meet other players who he has been repeatedly questioned about. FAI sources suggested last week that he would soon try and sit down with Jamie O'Hara, the Wolves midfielder.

“It’s important that he makes a clear indication of his desire.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...292163042.html

“Two or three years ago I went with Liam Brady and met O’Hara,” he said. “These things don’t usually make the news but they happen in the background. He was at Portsmouth and I went into the dressing room but at the time he hadn’t made a decision.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soc...292126533.html


Do you really think Trapattoni is still waiting on O'Hara to commit after two to three years?

[Noelys Guitar]

“It’s important that he makes a clear indication of his desire.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...292163042.html

“Two or three years ago I went with Liam Brady and met O’Hara,” he said. “These things don’t usually make the news but they happen in the background. He was at Portsmouth and I went into the dressing room but at the time he hadn’t made a decision.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soc...292126533.html


Do you really think Trapattoni is still waiting on O'Hara to commit after two to three years?

No I don't. But I do believe he will be meeting with O"Hara the next time he is in England. Whether it comes to anything is down to O'Hara's genuine desire to play for Ireland or not.

[paul_oshea]

Mostly agree with this.



I know what you mean, but there's no guarantee a change of system will make us any more at ease. In fact, I think that comes from the idea that we should steamroller the likes of Macedonia - and I don't necessarily see why we should be.

Sure, if everything clicked on the night - we got the right goals at the right times, took our chances - we could win these games comfortably. But take a look at Macedonia's results over the past five years in any game (including friendlies). From Soccerbase, I gathered they've only lost three times by more than a single goal - Scotland away in 2009 (2-0); Holland away, 09 (4-0); Russia away, 07 (3-0). In that time the likes of Spain and England couldn't spank them.

Again I'm not saying we couldn't put up a good score against these guys, but it would be the exception not the rule. In general, no one has an easy time against Macedonia (and I believe it's probably the same for other awkward sides). And the system wouldn't necessarily change that. I believe nervy times is just the nature of European Qualifying football when you're a just above average team like ourselves.

Also - while a change of system/personnel/tactics might make us control the ball a bit better, and so make us less nervous, I still don't think it's automatically that simple against teams like Macedonia. It was only a couple of years, as Euro Champs, that Spain beat them 3-2 after coming from two behind.

You have qualified it with the last bit, we can beat macedonia by 1-0 or 2-1, I said outscore them. I didn't say we would win by 3 or 4 goals. Most definitely over the last 5 years have teams improved that there is a consistent level, i was just chatting about this to a guy at work, lots of different reasons really, but most of these teams all seem to be more comfortable on the ball than us, better in tight spaces, yet we are ahead in rankings and are considered the favourite. Now that is another really interesting point but back to the original which was that if we keep possesion from them play it about a bit, i reckon we would create more chances, we would ease the pressure, and it would certainly make it more comfortable to watch

We are our own worst enemy in these situtations really.

[Kingdom]

We would get destroyed defensively, though against a team like macedonia where conceding would be ok as we could easily score enough to outnumber (outscore) them.

Begs the question do you think Trap should change the system/players based on the opposition? I know consistency etc etc, but our football would improve and it would make me a hell of a lot less nervous watching us playing the lower middle ranked team such as Macedonia.

I'm fully aware that most would expect us to be a hiding to nothing with a team such as that. What I've consistently said is that I believe that we have the personnel (or will soon have) to really hurt teams. We've never had genuine pace and trickery on both wings at the same time. We do now. We also have the players capable of playing keep ball too.
Something that seriously gets on my nerves is the Irish fan mentality of crying from the stands to "launch it" when the back 4 and a midfielder retain possession amongst themselves for any considerable period of time. You can almost hear the screams from the crowd to launch it. If the pass is not on, the sensible thing to do is to keep possession however lateral or backward, rather than hoof a ball into nothing, which some of our fans almost long for. It does my head in.

I'm posing the question that if we were good enough in possession is there the need for a Green/Whelan/Andrews type player to act as a breaker, if instead you could play Fahey and McCarthy? Competent full backs are key and we have been blessed in that department down through the years - hopefully it will continue. The worst thing about posting formations anywhere is seeing it rigidly. I'm probably off on my own on this one, but if you have players comfortable in possession and with each other, a system can be fluid. In what I posted above, realistically Long and Duff are interchangable, while McGeady is comfortable anywhere going forward. Also Duff and Long's workrate compensate for the perceived lack of defensive ability.

I believe there are more options available to use than simple black and white, 4-4-2. When Clifford, Meyler and McCarthy progress further again, we really could be onto something.
With a different manager (not that I'm advocating sacking trapattoni) i think the future could be very interesting for us.

[Junior]

I really do think if we had a DM, a really good one, i know longer think we need anything else, then we could play 4-4-2 with Mccarthy or Fahey. I don't think with whelan in there we are good enough to play the other two. But as things stand i think Mcarthy or fahey could play in a 4-3-3 or a 4-5-1 or whatever, basically pack out the midfield.

I think after the last showing, again a little unfair and maybe irrational, but lawrence doesn't really do it as a winger in traps formation, so perhaps we could try him in midfield, again it woud be in a 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 ideally.

Just great that we have these options now(formation and players, but the formations are not mutually exclusive, i think they are dependent on one another i.e. the best players dictate the system/formation).

Could JOSH do it? I know he is not the enforcer per se but defensively sound, particularly down the middle and with Foley/Kelly Sledge/Clark/O'Dea to cover defensive duties could make a decent job of the role allow Fahey/McCarthy/Whoever have the free-er role...

Perhaps Marc Wilson could do it, just havent seen enough of him. Perhaps NI/Scotland Trap will give it a try.

[Duggie]

Could JOSH do it? I know he is not the enforcer per se but defensively sound, particularly down the middle and with Foley/Kelly Sledge/Clark/O'Dea to cover defensive duties could make a decent job of the role allow Fahey/McCarthy/Whoever have the free-er role...

Perhaps Marc Wilson could do it, just havent seen enough of him. Perhaps NI/Scotland Trap will give it a try.

O'Shea distribution is brutal though, i dont think he would solve the problem. I wonder about putting lawerence in there, hes a good passer and seems pretty good defensively, but trap must not see it as an option.

[paul_oshea]

I believe there are more options available to use than simple black and white, 4-4-2. When Clifford, Meyler and McCarthy progress further again, we really could be onto something.
With a different manager (not that I'm advocating sacking trapattoni) i think the future could be very interesting for us.

Ya except when those come on, the earlier point "We've never had genuine pace and trickery on both wings at the same time. We do now." one of those will have retired probably. Maybe not but we need Mr Right right now!

[Kingdom]

Ya except when those come on, the earlier point "We've never had genuine pace and trickery on both wings at the same time. We do now." one of those will have retired probably. Maybe not but we need Mr Right right now!

lol - yeah I was waiting for that. For that reason I'd love to see Treacy get more game time when fit. He reminds me a bit of Albert Riera, only quicker.

[SwanVsDalton]

You have qualified it with the last bit, we can beat macedonia by 1-0 or 2-1, I said outscore them. I didn't say we would win by 3 or 4 goals. Most definitely over the last 5 years have teams improved that there is a consistent level, i was just chatting about this to a guy at work, lots of different reasons really, but most of these teams all seem to be more comfortable on the ball than us, better in tight spaces, yet we are ahead in rankings and are considered the favourite. Now that is another really interesting point but back to the original which was that if we keep possesion from them play it about a bit, i reckon we would create more chances, we would ease the pressure, and it would certainly make it more comfortable to watch

We are our own worst enemy in these situtations really.

A bit more comfort would be nice, but we were comfortable for the first 43 minutes and last 20 on Saturday. Fair enough, but I feel the quality of the opposition is often understated (not necessarily by you, just generally).

[Junior]

O'Shea distribution is brutal though, i dont think he would solve the problem. I wonder about putting lawerence in there, hes a good passer and seems pretty good defensively, but trap must not see it as an option.

I'd agree JOSH's distribution has been poor, particularly at FB. However, at the same time Ive always thought of him as fairly comfortable on the ball and I've seen him play for Man U with decent distribution, I think its an option.

Lawrence has said he prefers a central role, he certainly has the robustness & strength required, would he have the discipline though? I dont know the answer to that one but I wouldnt be opposed to seeing him tried there in a friendly.

[SwanVsDalton]

Lawrence has said he prefers a central role, he certainly has the robustness & strength required, would he have the discipline though? I dont know the answer to that one but I wouldnt be opposed to seeing him tried there in a friendly.

Don't think he's athletic enough. It's the one thing our midfield really lacks, and the only options who are particularly athletic are Andrews, McCarthy and possibly Green.

[Duggie]

Don't think he's athletic enough. It's the one thing our midfield really lacks, and the only options who are particularly athletic are Andrews, McCarthy and possibly Green.

oh i dont know about that, he seems like hes got a great engine. remember in yereven wasnt he just back from injury if i remember correctly and he ran himself into the ground in the heat and had a good game.

[Junior]

Don't think he's athletic enough. It's the one thing our midfield really lacks, and the only options who are particularly athletic are Andrews, McCarthy and possibly Green.

I know what you mean, Ive always sensed he looks like a guy on his last legs but then plenty of players look fcuked from the first 5 minutes but seem to be still going strong come 90 (I think he could be one of them). McCarthy, Ill give you but Green and Andrews dont particularly stand out as being much more 'athletic' than Lawrence in my opinion.,