Shane Ferguson

[Gather round]

Whereas the North have qualified for how many (or even play-offs) since October '85?
Fourteen finals missed and counting

Only 12 actually in the last 24 years. I'd concentrate on basic arithmetic before criticising anyone else's typo errors?

Ferguson is supposedly eligible for three international teams, who have managed one finals tournament between them in the last 18 attempts. It's a reasonable assumption that likelihood of qualification isn't a major factor in his choice.

[ifk101]

Ferguson is supposedly eligible for three international teams, who have managed one finals tournament between them in the last 18 attempts. It's a reasonable assumption that likelihood of qualification isn't a major factor in his choice.

Let's not get carried away with ourselves. Has he actually made a choice? It is reasonable to assume he has chosen NI but until he is capped at competitive level this isn't set in stone. From his past actions it is a reasonable assumption that representing the IFA in international competition isn't high on his agenda. So "a reasonable assumption that likelihood of qualification isn't a major factor in his choice" is premature to say the least. If he subsequently ties himself to NI then it can be concluded that "likelihood of qualification isn't a major factor in his choice".

[Gather round]

Let's not get carried away with ourselves

I haven't. Ferguson is still eligible for three international teams, all of whom are mediocre and rarely qualify for finals.

[Not Brazil]

But is this actually even anyone? Has anyone ever come out and said it's their 'ambition' to do that ?? Examples, please!

Of course.

Plenty of patriotic young players from Northern Ireland aspire to representing Northern Ireland at senior international level - that would be evidenced by their actions.

Those in our underage ranks who don't wish to play at senior international level for Northern Ireland need to be weeded out in favour of those who do.

[ifk101]

I haven't.

You have.

I Ferguson is still eligible for three international teams

Apparently so.

all of whom are mediocre

Bunching all three teams as mediocre is lazy. It suggests they are all at the same level of mediocrity which clearly isn't the (5-0) case.

and rarely qualify for finals.

This is an indication rather than a determinant of future qualification likelihood.

[Gather round]

Bunching all three teams as mediocre is lazy. It suggests they are all at the same level of mediocrity

It isn't lazy and doesn't suggest anything of the sort. None of them qualify regularly, but that doesn't mean they're all equally mediocre, nor as bad as San Marino or Andorra. Just that they all meet the basic test of mediocrity, ie qualifying less often than Slovenia.

This is an indication rather than a determinant of future qualification likelihood

It's both. Mid-term past results are a fair guide to mid-term future chances.

[ifk101]

It isn't lazy and doesn't suggest anything of the sort.

It is lazy to brand all three mediocre. Branding all three as mediocre suggests all three are the same which clearly isn't the (5-0) case.

None of them qualify regularly,

True. Ireland last qualified in 2002 after finishing second (on goal difference) in a group of six teams and subsequently defeating Iran in a two-legged play-off. 50 Uefa teams competed for WC qualification.

NI last qualified in 1986 when 32 Uefa teams competed for WC qualification. The top two in NI's group of 5 teams qualified automatically for the 1986 WC.

but that doesn't mean they're all equally mediocre,

finally....

nor as bad as San Marino or Andorra.

Andorra made a better game of it than NI ......

Just that they all meet the basic test of mediocrity, ie qualifying less often than Slovenia.

The test of mediocrity is Slovenia?

It's both. Mid-term past results are a fair guide to mid-term future chances.

"Mid-term past results" (to use your terminology) are used to determine a team's seeding - let's call it a measure of their mediocrity or Slovenia-ism. The likelihood of a team qualifying for a major finals can be determined by their seeding. Currently Ireland is ranked 31st in the World. I can't find what page NI's ranking is on .....

[Gather round]

It is lazy to brand all three mediocre. Branding all three as mediocre suggests all three are the same which clearly isn't the (5-0) case

Repeating this doesn't make it any more sensible. You've qualified for one finals out of eight. That's mediocre, given the evidence of smaller countries that have done as well, as better. You're less mediocre than NI based on results in those tournaments, particularly the current and most recent one, not on friendlies. Sure, we were rubbish in all three Dublin games. Although based on Euro 2012 qualifying alone, we're currently a bit less so than Scotland and Wales.

NI last qualified in 1986 when 32 Uefa teams competed for WC qualification. The top two in NI's group of 5 teams qualified automatically for the 1986 WC

How is this relevant? It's a bit more difficult to make the World Cup nowadays, I'll agree: but rather easier to reach Euro finals, where we've both flunked four in a row. Mediocre, eh?

Andorra made a better game of it than NI ......

Alternatively, beating a team of part-timers by only two goals is rather more mediocre than managing four. Look at the big picture, man.

The test of mediocrity is Slovenia?

Small country where football's not the main sport. Subjective, but I use it partly because of their recent fictures with us. But mainly because of their success in qualifying.

Currently Ireland is ranked 31st in the World. I can't find what page NI's ranking is on .....

That's the trouble with you boffins. Quite happy to go about determinants, but struggle with the three Rs. Your FIFA ranking of 20th in Europe (ours is 31st, all 53 fit quite easily on one page) suggests you won't qualify for a 16 team finals.

If regularly finishing above NI cheers you, fine. If you don't start to qualify more often it's about as pointless as us lording over Wales because we've outpointed them ever since Euro 2004.

[ifk101]

Repeating this doesn't make it any more sensible.

It's very sensible. Actually.

You've qualified for one finals out of eight.

Correct.

That's mediocre

Agree. Have I said otherwise?

given the evidence of smaller countries that have done as well, as better.

Yes you can argue that.

You're less mediocre than NI

So we're not at the same level?

based on results in those tournaments, particularly the current and most recent one, not on friendlies.

Yes you can argue that.

Sure, we were rubbish in all three Dublin games.

Rubbish? Understatement alert!

Although based on Euro 2012 qualifying alone, we're currently a bit less so than Scotland and Wales.

The three teams are not facing the same opposition in their respective groups. I'd consider a team's ranking and recent head to head games to make comparisons.

How is this relevant?

I agreed with you. I added background information for those that do not recall the last time Ireland or NI qualified for a WC or major championship.

It's a bit more difficult to make the World Cup nowadays, I'll agree

I concur.

: but rather easier to reach Euro finals, where we've both flunked four in a row. Mediocre, eh?

Read previous responses.

Alternatively, beating a team of part-timers by only two goals is rather more mediocre than managing four. Look at the big picture, man.

???

Small country where football's not the main sport. Subjective, but I use it partly because of their recent fictures with us. But mainly because of their success in qualifying.

???

That's the trouble with you boffins.

???

Quite happy to go about determinants, but struggle with the three Rs. Your FIFA ranking of 20th in Europe (ours is 31st, all 53 fit quite easily on one page) suggests you won't qualify for a 16 team finals.

We are determining the likelihood/ probability of future qualification. Higher ranked and subsequently higher seeded teams have a greater likelihood of qualification than lesser teams such as San Marino, Andorra and NI.

If regularly finishing above NI cheers you, fine.

That's not an achievement to take cheer from.

If you don't start to qualify more often it's about as pointless as us lording over Wales because we've outpointed them ever since Euro 2004.

I take it Wales outpointed NI prior to Euro 2004?

[DannyInvincible]

Any hopes Ferguson had of breaking through at Newcastle this season will have been dealt a further blow by the signing of Davide Santon, presumably a long-term replacement for José Enrique. Pardew was already favouring Ryan Taylor, a right-back over Ferguson, although his fitness was also lacking for the first two games.

[Wolfman]

Only 12 actually in the last 24 years. I'd concentrate on basic arithmetic before criticising anyone else's typo errors?

My bad. Should have been the last 13. Or are you going to tell me the North are going to qualify for next year??
They won't make 2014, mind.

Plenty of patriotic young players from Northern Ireland aspire to representing Northern Ireland at senior international level - that would be evidenced by their actions.

Yes, but who are all these people whose dream it is? What are their names? And evidence, please!

[Not Brazil]

Yes, but who are all these people whose dream it is? What are their names? And evidence, please!

All players representing Northern Ireland at Under 19 and Under 21 level must aspire to representing Northern Ireland at senior international level - if this is not the case, they should be weeded out of the system.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aye, but yer man's right.
That's not a name, nor is it 'evidence'.

Just pointless waffle...

[Not Brazil]

Aye, but yer man's right.
That's not a name, nor is it 'evidence'.

Just pointless waffle...

The names are all those in our Under 19 and Under 21 squads.

The evidence is they accept the call up.

If this is not the case, I await names and evidence.

Cue "pointless waffle" and "so what?" diversions.

[ArdeeBhoy]

You mean Hypocrisy by your good self surely??
And tedious repetition.


Anyway until they play a full competitive game, your 'theory' is hardly watertight, is it...

[Not Brazil]

Anyway until they play a full competitive game, your 'theory' is hardly watertight, is it...

My "theory" is simple - if you don't aspire to represent Northern Ireland at senior international level, no room for you in the Under 19 and Under 21 squads.

If there are any players in our current Under19 and Under 21 squads who don't aspire to represent Northern Ireland at senior international level, I look forward to names and evidence.

No hypocricy in that, mo chara.

[ifk101]

Shane Ferguson played twice for NI's U21 side in the past few days, a 0-1 away defeat to Serbia and yesterday's 3-0 home defeat to Denmark. As he has played in competitive matches for NI at U21 level he cannot represent us at U21 level until the current U21 qualification is completed.

With NI's senior team faring no better than their U21 counterparts, (both teams qualification hopes are effectively over), I'd imagine Ferguson will be called up by Nigel for the remaining two senior qualifiers to tie him to the North.

[bwagner]

why the heck would you want to play for a team that got hammered by Estonia...taig or not

[Not Brazil]

Shane Ferguson played twice for NI's U21 side in the past few days, a 0-1 away defeat to Serbia and yesterday's 3-0 home defeat to Denmark. As he has played in competitive matches for NI at U21 level he cannot represent us at U21 level until the current U21 qualification is completed.

Following the match against Denmark, Ferguson went to the cinema with his mates - to watch the appropriately named "Inbetweeners" movie.

[cestlavie]

Any player that plays underage up until under 19 level in competitive capacity (like Euro championships etc) should not be allowed to switch allegiance after this point.

Northern Ireland have a point when it comes to investing time and money into the youth set up for players to walk away is really though on them.

Yes we are the main benefactors but maybe we should come to an amicable agreement to help curtail this going forward and draw a line under it.

Legally its not wrong but morally it is certainly questionable.

Its a two way process. Players appear to be quite happy to get the chance and the exposure to play at international schoolboy level but sometimes walk away far too easy.

Just a thought!